5.samadhi 0 #1 July 10, 2012 Would love input from anybody with experience. What is the benefit to collapsing wings and deploying with an arch? What is the benefit of deploying in full flight? I seem to have better heading control while deploying in full flight, and also I seem to be able to enjoy flying a little longer since the deployment takes less altitude compared to collapsing wings and deploying with an arch. Is there something inherently dangerous about deploying while in full flight? Caveat in place that I am clicking heels for a wave-off (even when I solo to wire muscle memory). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #2 July 11, 2012 Aside from losing less altitude on deployment (which only matters in the base enviroment) there isnt any real use in skydiving when pulling at normal/safe/legal altitudes. A full flight pull can lead to worse openings in case of asymetry, or severly hard openings compared to normal pulls with a drop/delay. But with practice can be a fine/normal deployment technique on any WS skydive for sure. But in terms of need/ease a normal pull is probably preferred.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMichaeli 1 #3 July 11, 2012 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4190881;page=unread#unread Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtbox 0 #4 July 11, 2012 I found bigger suits are harder to collapse so i started pulling full flights... lose stuff all alti but then why one and only sport chop was from a normal container and full flight pull and a pilot 117 loaded at 1.6... I still pull full flight sometimes but decided to work on collapsing bigger suits better too... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr_bird 0 #5 July 11, 2012 QuoteIs there something inherently dangerous about deploying while in full flight? If you mean deploying ir really full flight (without decreasing horisontal speed and angle of flight), in case of flight for distance or/and speed it can be pretty painfull. I tried to deploy in such way few times and it nearly killed me. Also I've got a twist few times. But if you mean deploying just without collapsing of wingsuit as much as possible with decreasing speed a little, everything should be ok. The only thing you should pay attention - incresing of PC eclipse probability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arvoitus 1 #6 July 11, 2012 If you're really pulling from full flight i.e. you're not decelerating your forward speed at all be prepared to get spanked one day.Your rights end where my feelings begin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrCat 0 #7 July 11, 2012 QuoteIf you're really pulling from full flight i.e. you're not decelerating your forward speed at all be prepared to get spanked one day. That did not look fun !!!Jump more, post less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #8 July 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteIs there something inherently dangerous about deploying while in full flight? If you mean deploying ir really full flight (without decreasing horisontal speed and angle of flight), in case of flight for distance or/and speed it can be pretty painfull. I tried to deploy in such way few times and it nearly killed me. Also I've got a twist few times. But if you mean deploying just without collapsing of wingsuit as much as possible with decreasing speed a little, everything should be ok. The only thing you should pay attention - incresing of PC eclipse probability. There is quite much of FUD about full flight deployment. First of all if you use common sense for deployment speed you are in the speed range of sub-terminal deployment. I can cruise over 200 km/h horizontal speed, but I'm not deploying from that. Your canopy does not care about the angle of deployment, just the relative wind, _but_if you have a canopy with snappy openings you might kiss your knees, because of the whip slash. If you jump a snivelly canopy FF pull can be ok. I went back to "classic" deployment when I started to jump my Stealth. I got knot on the bridle several times. I got no knots when I deployed from full flight. My procedure is wave, pull and get back to flight as long the canopy takes it over. Pro's: less burble, cleaner deployment faster deployment, not that important in skydiving Con's: bigger chance to get line twist a snappy opening might hurt more Yes, I got 2 cut-away from a line-twist, both were from pulling full flight and jumping an elliptical canopy. Full flight deployment is not recommended by any manufacturer. "Classic" deployment is the way for student and beginners or someone jumping a fast opening canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
za_skydiver 0 #9 July 11, 2012 FWIW I've heard of people flipping through their risers from full flight deployments.... If you look at the video that Arviotus posted, you can see he is not far off from that.Some dream of flying, i live the dream... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #10 July 11, 2012 QuoteFWIW I've heard of people flipping through their risers from full flight deployments.... Thats usually more related to bad bodyposition (bending at the hip, tucking chin into the chest) basically initiating a frontloop.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #11 July 11, 2012 I don't like deploying in forward flight because it always makes me feel as if I'm going to flip through the risers.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #12 July 11, 2012 QuoteI don't like deploying in forward flight because it always makes me feel as if I'm going to flip through the risers. The only people I've known to flip through the risers did it because they deployed head low ... not because they deployed in full flight. If you want to deploy in full flight (and not get spanked) then do it when you've bled off most of your horizontal speed after a flair."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #13 July 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteI don't like deploying in forward flight because it always makes me feel as if I'm going to flip through the risers. The only people I've known to flip through the risers did it because they deployed head low ... not because they deployed in full flight. If you want to deploy in full flight (and not get spanked) then do it when you've bled off most of your horizontal speed after a flair. IMO flairing and bleeding off most of your horizontal speed doesn't count as "full flight", any more than flying a canopy in brakes counts as "full flight".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #14 July 11, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I don't like deploying in forward flight because it always makes me feel as if I'm going to flip through the risers. The only people I've known to flip through the risers did it because they deployed head low ... not because they deployed in full flight. If you want to deploy in full flight (and not get spanked) then do it when you've bled off most of your horizontal speed after a flair. IMO flairing and bleeding off most of your horizontal speed doesn't count as "full flight", any more than flying a canopy in brakes counts as "full flight". Semantics ... Deployment should be at some point after additional horizontal speed from flair is bled off and no horizontal speed remains. The method I described loses the least amount of altitude while still minimizing the risk of a hard opening. Do you have a problem with this method besides semantics?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #15 July 11, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote I don't like deploying in forward flight because it always makes me feel as if I'm going to flip through the risers. The only people I've known to flip through the risers did it because they deployed head low ... not because they deployed in full flight. If you want to deploy in full flight (and not get spanked) then do it when you've bled off most of your horizontal speed after a flair. IMO flairing and bleeding off most of your horizontal speed doesn't count as "full flight", any more than flying a canopy in brakes counts as "full flight". Semantics ... Deployment should be at some point after additional horizontal speed from flair is bled off and no horizontal speed remains. The method I described loses the least amount of altitude while still minimizing the risk of a hard opening. Do you have a problem with this method besides semantics? I only wish to clarify what EXACTLY is meant by the questioner. If different responders interpret "full flight" differently then we get nowhere with the answers to the question.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #16 July 11, 2012 QuoteYour canopy does not care about the angle of deployment, just the relative wind, _but_if you have a canopy with snappy openings you might kiss your knees, because of the whip slash. Right, to clarify on this, your canopy does not care but your body does care. You will get a certain amount of linear deceleration from your canopy, based on total speed when you deploy. You will get rotational deceleration based on what angle the lines come off your back. Rotational deceleration can and will hurt/main/kill if the conditions are right. Not saying it's common or likely, just possible. For this reason, I try to minimize that angle, i.e. I collapse and sink, or if I don't have time for that, I stall my wingsuit and get very head high (this is not a beginner move though).www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #17 July 11, 2012 QuoteI only wish to clarify what EXACTLY is meant by the questioner. So what exactly is full flight?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #18 July 11, 2012 QuoteI stall my wingsuit and get very head high (this is not a beginner move though). This is definitely not a beginner move since you lose a considerable amount of control when stalled."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5.samadhi 0 #19 July 11, 2012 thanks for the comments...butters to clarify you are talking about pulling the suit in a flare but not complete stalling of the suit? \ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #20 July 11, 2012 https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/165725_1681172142480_8320761_n.jpg here is a deployment in a wing-open, stalled config. Many times this is referred to as "full flight" because everything is open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #21 July 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteI only wish to clarify what EXACTLY is meant by the questioner. So what exactly is full flight? Well, that is the point of my observation. If I were to be the authority on definitions, it would be wings open, unstalled, unflaired, steady state gliding flight. Rather like we fly in a flock. Maybe the OP can tell us what HE understands by the expression.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #22 July 11, 2012 Quote Rather like we fly in a flock. In quite a few cases thats actually arms swooped back, body arched and legs upJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #23 July 12, 2012 Quotethanks for the comments...butters to clarify you are talking about pulling the suit in a flare but not complete stalling of the suit? After a flair when the additional horizontal speed has bled off but before stalling."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #24 July 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteSo what exactly is full flight? Well, that is the point of my observation. If I were to be the authority on definitions, it would be wings open, unstalled, unflaired, steady state gliding flight. Rather like we fly in a flock. Please do me a favor, if you're going to argue semantics then provide your definition in your response in the future to save time ... I think unstalled and unflaired are objective but wings open is subjective. After all, you could have the wings open and swept back, be arched, etc... PS: I consider full flight to be the flight that achieves the best steady state performance for the individual. Yes, this means that my description of pulling in full flight would not actually be in full flight ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoValidTitle 0 #25 July 12, 2012 Quote Quote Rather like we fly in a flock. In quite a few cases thats actually arms swooped back, body arched and legs up Me in white: http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/481896_3324439762335_794695543_n.jpg I guess that's what I get for being 115lbs and flocking in an X I don't consider that full flight. Though I use the term "full flight" loosely like some others do.Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
