Do you take the main out before doing a reserve repack?

[sunshine 2]

Do any of you riggers out there pack the reserve while the main is still in the container? Every repack i've done, i've taken the main out. Last weekend i was talking to rigger who prefers doing a repack with the main still in the conainer. It's so neat to talk to different riggers and see how they all do things. But now i'm just wondering how many riggers pack with the main still in there.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[John4455 0]

Before I give my reserve to my rigger I usually cut the main away(on the ground, I just disconnect it) just to make it easier for them. They won't even have to deal with it.

How do ya like it Johnny?

[skybytch 273]

I was taught to take the main out. Pretty hard to inspect the main flaps, grommets and closing loop with the canopy packed up.

[sunshine 2]

Quote

I was taught to take the main out. Pretty hard to inspect the main flaps, grommets and closing loop with the canopy packed up.

I was also taught to take the main out, and thats how i've always done it. This guy said he takes the main out and does the inspection, but prefers packing the reserve with the main back in the rig. He said it helps with keeping the reserve in the proper shape instead of pushing the cypres unit too far down into the main area. Like i said, i was just looking to see if anyone else did it that way. All riggers do things slightly differently, and it never hurts to hear about alternate techniques.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[Nightingale 0]

I'm not a rigger, but I've seen at least three different riggers do repacks... they all took the main out if it wasn't out already due to a cutaway.

[skygod7777 0]

i usually have them leave the main with me so i can look it over too. but i take i don't totally take it out, i just pull the pin and roll it out. on my rig if i'm in a hurry for some odd reason i leave the main in (only for lets say trying to get it packed to make and airplane to go the FL, no i've never done that , or getting ready for rantould have break my last bit of seal thread)

everyone i know except for my dad takes the main out, he doesn't care either way. that's how i used to but i find it a bit easier to tell if the corners are filled up good if the main isn't there.

later

[darkwing 5]

I have generally preferred to remove the main. I have a rigger buddy who prefers that the main is left in.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[rigging65 0]

I'd say it's six of one, half dozen of the other, personally.

In our shop, we take the main out of every rig because we inspect it, work the rings, clean the cables, etc...and it works into our written checklist better to have the main away from the rig. It also forces the issue of checking continuity on every main, every time. You can't get lazy and "just hook it back up".

IMO, If you're careful of with you're doing, it doesn't matter either way!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[councilman24 37]

I have left the main in when opening a reserve I packed to tighten a loop or replace a cypres to save the customer's main pack job. But usually I take it out. For the inspection reasons above and also I believe I can do a better job filling the corners dressing most reserve containers without the main in the container.

My usual procedure is to pull the reserve with the main closed, if the rig comes with in with it. I want to see the launch with the main riser covers and flaps closed. Then I take out the main, cut it away so I can clean cables, inspect, flex risers, etc. etc. etc. After the inspection and repack, I hook the main back up, take a look at it, and check the continuity. The customer gets it with the main unpacked. I don't pack mains and everyone likes it a little different so I leave that to the customer. I know a lot of riggers leave the main in the bag, cut it away, use some sort of aid to keep the risers straight, hook it back up, and close it. I think the small risk of getting it on backwards (much less likely now with RSL's etc) is too much to take and not worth a main pack job.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[fudd 0]

I'm no rigger so here comes some question.
- When the main containger is closed, wont it push on the reserve container a little, giving the reserve slightly less space?
Will not this decrease in space for the reserve when the main container is closed, increase the pressure on the reserve closing loop?
How much does this affect the pull force?
Anyone ever measured the pull force on a reserve both with and without the main closed?

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[riggerrob 643]

... always remove main before repacking reserve, because it is impossible to completely inspect the reserve container without removing the main.

[parafredo 0]

I always take out the main to do a complete inspection of the entire system.I just want to make sure that the main will not be a cause of the next malfunction,why work twice and maybe avoid a fatal incident because the main system was not checked.I always find something to fix on main while doing the reserve inspection.I do not want my reserve repack to open for a stupid thing on the main or something related to that.I saw scary things outhere,believe me.That is my opinion from a lot of experience on the field.

[chutingstar 1]

Quote

... always remove main before repacking reserve, because it is impossible to completely inspect the reserve container without removing the main.

Amen.

Removing the main also allows you place the reserve canopy bulk in the proper places and shape the reserve container during closing.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[linestretch 0]

I TOTALLY agree with removing the main. Had a rigger buddy shorten the closing loop for another jumper who wasn't happy with the way his rig looked, and pretty much rushed him. In doing so, somehow misrouted the RSL, and on the next jump, the guy ended up with 2 out. I figure I'm gonna learn from this riggers mistake, and remove that part of the rig from the equation while working on it.

my pics & stuff!

[brits17 0]

always. i really prefer not to mess with the main at all, please take the main out and home if possible. i'm more than happy to help reassemble the main, check the lines etc... but it makes the rigger's job easier in the aspects of inspection and time if the customer cuts it away.

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[Rooster 0]

Hey Sunshine, long time no see. I personally would have to recommend that the main be removed every time for more than one reason.
The first, everyone has already hit on, the inspection issue.
Second of all, your packjob should be in the shape you desire your container to become, so the cypres sticking out shouldn't be an issue at all, but should be prepared for while packing. Don't use the container to shape the packjob. Having the main out allows you to place this hopefully ironed looking packjob into the harness container without distorting it.

Take care sunshine, hope to see you again soon,
Erich "Rooster"
Relative Workshop.

P.S. It also helps eliminate any entaglement situations with the main risers for a rigger that is perhaps less 'anal' if you will.

[skybeergodd 0]

I leave the main in for the re-pack.....I open and inspect...close and then do the reserve. It makes it easier to make the rig look good it prevents to reserve from pushing down into the main tray and you can see how the rig is looking as you close each flap and it serve as a good packing weight while it's in there.

[ZigZag 0]

( FAR Part No. 65 Subpart F 65.111(b) )
It becomes a numbers game, often in your favor, but it is the few times when you are not aware of a problem ( wear and tear on the main ), that you might get bitten, or better yet, the owner.

As riggers we can do more than just re-certify the reserve and container. We can and should take a look at the main. First of all, this is where many problems begin, a bad packjob, misrigging, worn lines, worn pilot chutes, tears or holes, etc., so numerous is the list of things that can cause a malfunction, why would you want to subject yourself
to such uncertainty. The economical benefits to you as a rigger are far greater, by providing good maintenance services to your customers, ensuring that they are jumping with gear that is airworthy. You are in the position to monitor the degradation of the main and associated components,
and advising your customers when it might be time to do something about it.
Riggers should "not" !!! absolve themselves of this responsibility. If you do not have adequate facilities to do the job, then take the main out and have the person intending to use the main assume responsibilty for the pack job!!!
As mentioned above, it is a 'numbers game', but someone will loose. Cosmetics have little to do with airworthiness..................

[linestretch 0]

that really doesn't make sense. Generallly a jumper brings the rig to have the reserve repacked, nothing to do with the main, unless otherwise specified by the owner. Lets say a guy brings in his rig without the main to get repacked. Are you gonna reject it because the main "could" be in bad shape? How about if the jumper has several mains he/she uses?

Sec. 65.111 Certificate required.
(b) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any main parachute of a dual
parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping in connection with civil
aircraft of the United States unless he has an appropriate current
certificate issued under this subpart. However, a person who does not hold
such a certificate may pack the main parachute of a dual parachute pack that
is to be used by him for intentional jumping.


I don't see anything there saying the rigger is responsible for the main.

my pics & stuff!

[skybeergodd 0]

The main is not under any TSO and is not considered an approved parachute as mentioned in FAR part 65. the only parts of the parachute system is mentioned in part 65 is the harness..the reserve container and the reserve parachute along with the pilot chute and freebag or diaper. The main pack tray and main parachute are not TSO'ed and there for not a riggers responsibilty......thats why we only seal the reserve and not the main also.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Sec. 65.111 Certificate required.
(b) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any main parachute of a dual
parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping in connection with civil
aircraft of the United States unless he has an appropriate current
certificate issued under this subpart. However, a person who does not hold
such a certificate may pack the main parachute of a dual parachute pack that
is to be used by him for intentional jumping.

That is the old Part 65.111(b). Here is the new one:

(b) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any main parachute of a dual-parachute system to be used for intentional parachute jumping in connection with civil aircraft of the United States unless that person --
(1) Has an appropriate current certificate issued under this subpart;
(2) Is under the supervision of a current certificated parachute rigger;
(3) Is the person making the next parachute jump with that parachute in accordance with §105.43(a) of this chapter; or
(4) Is the parachutist in command making the next parachute jump with that parachute in a tandem parachute operation conducted under §105.45(b)(1) of this chapter.

Also, Part 65.125 apllies:

§65.125 Certificates: Privileges.
(a) A certificated senior parachute rigger may --
(1) Pack or maintain (except for major repair) any type of parachute for which he is rated; and
(2) Supervise other persons in packing any type of parachute for which that person is rated in accordance with §105.43(a) or §105.45(b)(1) of this chapter.
(b) A certificated master parachute rigger may --
(1) Pack, maintain, or alter any type of parachute for which he is rated; and
(2) Supervise other persons in packing, maintaining, or altering any type of parachute for which the certificated parachute rigger is rated in accordance with §105.43(a) or §105.45(b)(1) of this chapter.
(c) A certificated parachute rigger need not comply with §§65.127 through 65.133 (relating to facilities, equipment, performance standards, records, recent experience, and seal) in packing, maintaining, or altering (if authorized) the main parachute of a dual parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping.

Derek

[ZigZag 0]

I included reference to the FAR in order to demonstrate that there is a relationship between the rigger and packing the main. The revised FAR upholds that relationship.
I made no reference to the situation where the main was not hooked up or packed.What this thread is about, is leaving the main packed in the packtray, while doing an I&R!



Neither was my post intended to write new rules or regulations, but rather to comment on a procedure, that I do not agree with, and to explain why.

[Edit]I incorrectly applied the term 'certify' to the main.
It was my intent to treat the entire assembly with the respect and scrutiny it deserves.

[ZigZag 0]

I am aware of the revised FAR and will make an effort to refer to current and up to date FAR's.
My apologies.
Ziggy