team_skyflash 0 #26 January 17, 2013 Quote Wait until the wooden frame burns up on re-entry. Hey wait - didn't the ancient Greeks did some research into this too... ? Well at least we´ll leave some smoky white trail then because of our integrated fire-extinguishing gascapsules... Maybe a bit like Baumgartners smoke grenades at his feet... (image by LIMEX® Images) Join Our Dream: http://www.skyflash.org/Slideshow/Home-English/home-english.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnmatrix 21 #27 January 18, 2013 :) I do have a serious question though - won't you have to incorporate a parachute system into the design at some point during the testing, once it starts going higher? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #28 January 18, 2013 Is it just me, or does this thing look like a tear drop trailer with wings?50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
team_skyflash 0 #29 January 18, 2013 Quote:) I do have a serious question though - won't you have to incorporate a parachute system into the design at some point during the testing, once it starts going higher? Yes, you´re right. The Skyflash will receive an integrated, rocket driven, parachute system - This will be build in as soon as we are finished with the hovering tests. Those tests will not be much higher than 1m (3ft) so that a parachute would not be necessary until then. We are, at the moment, considering which system to choose.Join Our Dream: http://www.skyflash.org/Slideshow/Home-English/home-english.html <-- Pictures, Stories and more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,490 #30 January 18, 2013 QuoteThis will be build in as soon as we are finished with the hovering tests. It hovers now? (Or is that a translation thing...)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gzimmermann 0 #31 January 18, 2013 QuoteQuote:) I do have a serious question though - won't you have to incorporate a parachute system into the design at some point during the testing, once it starts going higher? Yes, you´re right. The Skyflash will receive an integrated, rocket driven, parachute system - This will be build in as soon as we are finished with the hovering tests. Those tests will not be much higher than 1m (3ft) so that a parachute cwould not be necessary until then. We are, at the moment, considering which system to choose. Take a Skywalk Tequila paraglider, controlled by a Spektrum DX 7 for landing and the spare LiIon Battery from the Dreamliner, good to go for 3ft ASL. And please give us the rocket driven reserve, taking us close to the moon from a shity situation below 2kft... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martini 0 #32 January 19, 2013 While you are considering which system to choose you might also consider what kind of flowers you like.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #33 January 20, 2013 Why are there no information about the people behind the project and a way to contact them on the website? You do not want to be contacted?For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halfpastniner 0 #34 January 22, 2013 Quote Quote Quote :) I do have a serious question though - won't you have to incorporate a parachute system into the design at some point during the testing, once it starts going higher? Yes, you´re right. The Skyflash will receive an integrated, rocket driven, parachute system - This will be build in as soon as we are finished with the hovering tests. Those tests will not be much higher than 1m (3ft) so that a parachute cwould not be necessary until then. We are, at the moment, considering which system to choose. Take a Skywalk Tequila paraglider, controlled by a Spektrum DX 7 for landing and the spare LiIon Battery from the Dreamliner, good to go for 3ft ASL. And please give us the rocket driven reserve, taking us close to the moon from a shity situation below 2kft... this thread is amazingBASE 1384 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
verticalflyer 11 #35 January 22, 2013 Quote Quote Quote Quote :) I do have a serious question though - won't you have to incorporate a parachute system into the design at some point during the testing, once it starts going higher? Yes, you´re right. The Skyflash will receive an integrated, rocket driven, parachute system - This will be build in as soon as we are finished with the hovering tests. Those tests will not be much higher than 1m (3ft) so that a parachute cwould not be necessary until then. We are, at the moment, considering which system to choose. Take a Skywalk Tequila paraglider, controlled by a Spektrum DX 7 for landing and the spare LiIon Battery from the Dreamliner, good to go for 3ft ASL. And please give us the rocket driven reserve, taking us close to the moon from a shity situation below 2kft... this thread is amazing You'll need an O2 system too for the altitudes your talking about plus an IFF and blackbox etcDont just talk about it, Do it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #36 January 26, 2013 QuoteI love lamp. "It's the Tellefunken U-47!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
team_skyflash 0 #37 February 17, 2013 Guess you´re right, flowers should be chosen prior - But that decision should be made before you begin with a lot of risky sports... We made an entertaining report together with the Discovery Channel. Fits quite well with the topic ´cause it makes us look even more crazy Take a look at it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yELa2LvRFgs Join Our Dream: http://www.skyflash.org/Slideshow/Home-English/home-english.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnmatrix 21 #38 February 17, 2013 Haha - I must say, I am still a bit sceptical about the project, but it looks like fun. :) But what are you going to do if/when this thing actually takes off? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hcsvader 1 #39 February 18, 2013 Here's one that works http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AXuy2-YoQY&sns=em Have you seen my pants? it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream >:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
team_skyflash 0 #40 February 18, 2013 Then, first of all, everybody here will celebrate! We have a testing program which begins with increasing speeds to roll (Stabilizer mounted). When the hovering speed is reached we will not accelerate further but do some control tests especially with the horizontal stabilizer. Then we will continue with increasing the height until we reach about 1,50m (3ft). After this, next phase is to come. We consider with our safety parachute manufacturer which way is safest to continue then. Talking about the jet powered hangglider... That would have to be the most inefficient way I can imagine to become airborne. A not specialized jet-engine with a plane of that speed would be like a Ferrari with a gearbox containing only the first gear step Meaning: Sounds cool, Looks cool.. End of the story. Join Our Dream: http://www.skyflash.org/Slideshow/Home-English/home-english.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hcsvader 1 #41 February 18, 2013 So what happens with your wing when the engines quit for whatever reason?Have you seen my pants? it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream >:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #42 February 18, 2013 QuoteWe have a testing program You have indicated that you will use an 'emergency' parachute of some sort, and with this in mind, you would be very foolish not to have a testing program that invloves aircraft-based launches and parachute based landings. It no secret that the most dangerous phase of any flight is the take-off and landing, and with the use of aircraft/parachutes, you put yourself in the position of being able to test every other aspect of your wing before moving to take-off and landing. You can prove that it will fly and that you can control it at all intended speeds, most importantly the lower end of the speed range, where take-offs and landings happen. Your project is way out there on the far end of aviation, with very little in the way of proven concepts or information to use in the design or build phase. On top of that, you are going to be VERY exposed in the case of any type of incident, no matter how minor. Imagine a slight low speed instability, or a gust of wind on landing, and one wing-tip just 'brushes' the ground at 60 or 80 knots on a take-off or landing. Are you OK with the idea of tumbling down a runway at 80 knots with that thing on your back? All the more reason to have hours of in-air flight time before getting it anywhere near the ground. Look at wingsuits, for example. How long did it take to build a suit that could fly slow enough to 'land' in a pile of boxes? Even then, the suits were aroudn for years before someone put in the jumps, and developed the skill where they were confident they could fly it slow enough, and at the right time, to pul off the 'stunt'. It also took some crazy balls, but the development of the skills and equipment came first, and they both happened with the help of aircraft and parachutes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lukasz_Se 2 #43 February 18, 2013 Wow...just WOW... Great thread Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #44 February 18, 2013 QuoteOn top of that, you are going to be VERY exposed in the case of any type of incident, no matter how minor. Imagine a slight low speed instability, or a gust of wind on landing, and one wing-tip just 'brushes' the ground at 60 or 80 knots on a take-off or landing. Are you OK with the idea of tumbling down a runway at 80 knots with that thing on your back? Pretty much the main thing on my mind ever since the first post in this thread. If this thing ever takes off, I fear for the pilot. Even if it doesn't take off, I can still envision a spectacular crash just in these ground runs. The picture in the first post is terrifying to look at (were it not photoshopped). He is just begging to break both wrists and probably his neck too. What is up with that arm position? Anyone who's been in freefall will recognize it would probably be impossible to hold your arms like that while moving at the speeds needs to takeoff/land this crazy thing, besides being unsafe and incredibly un-aerodynamic. Seriously, question for the OP: what is the reason the pilot is holding his arms forward like that? What does he imagine it is doing for him? Not only will his wrists break, they'll make the whole crazy contraption flip forwards when they do. As far as I can tell, there is absolutely no reason for a human being to want to take off and land from solid ground in a belly down head first position at really high speeds. What is the appeal? Birds don't do that. The flight is the cool part anyway, and we already have a dozen ways of doing that. Why not just use one of the already established takeoff/landing methods? This one does not look like it will ever be safe or accessible. What's the point? JetMan has been flying something like this for years and I am pretty sure he wouldn't dream of trying a takeoff/landing like this...www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
team_skyflash 0 #45 February 18, 2013 I decided to make the safety points you make as 'question of the day' on facebook next time. The position of the pilots arms is due to low speed and only one engine running. This means the pilot needs his arms for the CG-steering. Also it is the position he felt best in during the first runs. When going to hovering-speed and in flight the arms are aligned to the body. Regarding your idea of a flip over. This can´t happen due to very low distance to the ground. The CG is that low that the plane won´t flip against gravity and airspeed. Not to mention the pilots action in case of that. Our pilot said that, during most of the time at all tests until yet, he had total control of everything. Those few moments he didn´t have it (we tried a groundloop, a flipover and a wheelfailure) the plane didn´t need pilots interaction but stabilized itself immediately, even if a few tires were already of the ground and hovering- Last thing: If you take everything special from a special concept, Well... it won´t be special anymore. Take a supersonic planes ability to go supersonic - Why the design efforts then, it´s just a normal plane... Take our ability to take-off and land as well as fly efficiently at lower speeds - Well why don´t take Rossy´s concept, it´s already safely flying? I agree that this is nothing typical and absolutely nothing harmless, but our pilot is trained by experts in both, piloting and body skills. He wears a whole bunch of stabilizers, shock absorbers and more. We have a specially trained physiologist in our team just to think about those aspects and prepare the pilot. Most every aspect of drive and body positions have been well conceived and, partially, already been proven without problems. A plane that can´t take off is no plane. And most of the people won´t ever have the chance to fly something like Rossy. For our team and a lot of people we came to know during our work, this totally free flight in an actual plane is a dream. And as far as I can say - It´s a dream we can make possible when we work hard and well planned. So - Let´s do it...Join Our Dream: http://www.skyflash.org/Slideshow/Home-English/home-english.html <-- Pictures, Stories and more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #46 February 18, 2013 Quote If you take everything special from a special concept, Well... it won´t be special anymore. Take a supersonic planes ability to go supersonic - Why the design efforts then, it´s just a normal plane... Take our ability to take-off and land as well as fly efficiently at lower speeds - Well why don´t take Rossy´s concept, it´s already safely flying? Nobody is suggesting that you take away the idea of taking off and landing, just that you come at it from a more sensible place. Take a supersonic plane, for example. Many parts of the plane, it's design and systems will taken from already proven aircraft. If you're trying to build a supersonic plane, why re-invent the landing gear? Why not use one off a proven plane, and be able to cross that off the checklist of things to design and test. The problem here is that you have a wing you're not even sure will fly, or how it will handle, and the first thing you plan to do with it is a take-off. How many pilots have been killed in take-off related incidents? The prudent course of action would be to take advantage of proven concepts, like launching from a plane and landing with a parachute, to work out as may of the bugs as possible so when you do go for your first take-off and landing, there are far fewer questions regarding the fundmental performance of the wing. With the existance of commonly available air-data loggin devices, you could do a great deal of testing and research with regards to slow flight, level flight, and landing flares, all while several thousand feet in the air, with a parachute to facilitate the eventual landing. All I get from your response indicates that you're not serious about this project. You might want it to happen, but you're not looking at what is clearly the path to success (or failure without injury), you're looking at some pie-in-the-sky scenario where you just build a wing, and fly off into the sunset (literally). If you were serious, you would be willing to abandon what you 'want' and do what the project 'needs'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
team_skyflash 0 #47 February 18, 2013 Quote*** All I get from your response indicates that you're not serious about this project. You might want it to happen, but you're not looking at what is clearly the path to success (or failure without injury), you're looking at some pie-in-the-sky scenario where you just build a wing, and fly off into the sunset (literally). If you were serious, you would be willing to abandon what you 'want' and do what the project 'needs'. Well, all your answer indicate me is that you actually have some opinion regarding our (not mine) project (which is totally o.k. for me btw), and you are not willing to change it (which is also totally o.k.). I suppose you didn´t read thru some more parts of our website for example... As you might find there, it is a project that is in development for more than five years. From CFD calculation to RC tests, scalemodels and several different stages of designs we did most everything. And by far not everything could be shown on the website visually of course. If you really think someone has some nice idea of flying into sunset - think´s of some nice little backpack flying thing, work a bit here, paint some airfoil there and let it be build by someone to fly into freedom... Well, ok - It´s your opinion. You can trust me that no one is willing to put his life in the hands of this without a lot, I mean a LOT, of work, optimizing, planning and testing. You might find, when considering different ways for a testing start, that jumping off a plane has its dangers as well - Especially with a whole new aircraft concept. It seems like you imagine some kind of classic first flight with take-off, landing and some 100kn speeds. And regarding this I´m totally with you - it´s suicidal. But this is not what is going to happen.Join Our Dream: http://www.skyflash.org/Slideshow/Home-English/home-english.html <-- Pictures, Stories and more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #48 February 19, 2013 QuoteIt seems like you imagine some kind of classic first flight with take-off, landing and some 100kn speeds. And regarding this I´m totally with you - it´s suicidal. But this is not what is going to happen. Given the size of your wing, and the wingloading you'll end up with when you strap an adult human to the bottom of it, I'm not sure how much slower you think it's going to fly. Given that the body flight aspect is going to be the key to your whole control system, using aircraft based launches will only serve to make your pilot that much more preparred for a take-off or landing. Without that type of practice, you have a wing that you have never flown, and a pilot that has never flown any wing of that sort, let alone the one that you're trying to get off the ground. You're stacking the deck against yourself, your pilot, and your project. You could have flight time in your pilots log book, and reams of data on the performance of your wing, but for some unknown reason you're choosing to bypass both of those options. This is why I doubt the success of the project. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
team_skyflash 0 #49 February 19, 2013 QuoteQuoteIt seems like you imagine some kind of classic first flight with take-off, landing and some 100kn speeds. And regarding this I´m totally with you - it´s suicidal. But this is not what is going to happen. Given the size of your wing, and the wingloading you'll end up with when you strap an adult human to the bottom of it, I'm not sure how much slower you think it's going to fly. Given that the body flight aspect is going to be the key to your whole control system, using aircraft based launches will only serve to make your pilot that much more preparred for a take-off or landing. Without that type of practice, you have a wing that you have never flown, and a pilot that has never flown any wing of that sort, let alone the one that you're trying to get off the ground. You're stacking the deck against yourself, your pilot, and your project. You could have flight time in your pilots log book, and reams of data on the performance of your wing, but for some unknown reason you're choosing to bypass both of those options. This is why I doubt the success of the project. 100kn?? Dude, I don´t think we´re talking about the same thing here...Join Our Dream: http://www.skyflash.org/Slideshow/Home-English/home-english.html <-- Pictures, Stories and more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hcsvader 1 #50 February 19, 2013 Your confused by your own quote? Hahaha best thread ever!Have you seen my pants? it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream >:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
