Logbook Signature for skill Requirements

[DiverMike 5]

I am a little confused by the SIM 3-1-B-3: Jumps to meet skill requirements must be signed by a USPA Instructor, Instructor Examiner, Safety & Training Advisor, or a member of the USPA Board of Directors.

What specifically is considered a skill requirement? Do I need to have all 25 jumps within 2 meters of target center for a C license witnessed by one of the above? Does the instructor need to be on the jump that completed at least two points on an 8-way or larger skydive?

It seems there is wiggle room in that the SIM requires the activities to be 'signed by' and not witnessed. Do they need to sign each jump in your logbook, or is another skydiver's signature enough?

I do a lot of hop and pop accuracy jumps where I am the only fun jumper on a tandem load. Nobody sees me land inside the 1 meter hula hoop. Am I like the tree in the forest that falls without a sound because nobody witnessed me landing on target center? I get a TI to sign my logbook because they saw me leave the plane, but I doubt they saw me land target center when they are still a couple thousand feet above me.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[wildcard451 0]

If they are comfortable signing off on it based on your word that you did it then it is fine. You could lie about all of them, and have an instructor sign them....I guess no one could stop you. I highly doubt an investigation will be launched into your C-license. Questions may get asked how a "master parachutist" can't land where they are supposed to, but that will probably be the end of it.

[DiverMike 5]

It isn't my plan to lie and see if I can get away with it. I am trying to determine the intent of the regulation so I can conform to it.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[wildcard451 0]

Wasn't meaning that YOU were. It's a verification. Other jumpers sign the normal jumps to prove you did them. Skilled jumps I guess would ideally be witnessed, otherwise the instructor is taking your word for it. This means that someone COULD lie about them. I don;t think there would be an inquest into the instructor though.

[nigel99 555]

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I am a little confused by the SIM 3-1-B-3: Jumps to meet skill requirements must be signed by a USPA Instructor, Instructor Examiner, Safety & Training Advisor, or a member of the USPA Board of Directors.

What specifically is considered a skill requirement? Do I need to have all 25 jumps within 2 meters of target center for a C license witnessed by one of the above? Does the instructor need to be on the jump that completed at least two points on an 8-way or larger skydive?

It seems there is wiggle room in that the SIM requires the activities to be 'signed by' and not witnessed. Do they need to sign each jump in your logbook, or is another skydiver's signature enough?

I do a lot of hop and pop accuracy jumps where I am the only fun jumper on a tandem load. Nobody sees me land inside the 1 meter hula hoop. Am I like the tree in the forest that falls without a sound because nobody witnessed me landing on target center? I get a TI to sign my logbook because they saw me leave the plane, but I doubt they saw me land target center when they are still a couple thousand feet above me.

Good point. I have been lucky in that my skills jumps were signed off by an AFF-I but it was unplanned. My actual B license skills jump was with a USPA coach.

I would guess that if your jumps are witnessed by a trusted jumper you could get an instructor to co-sign the jump afterwards.

Besides you don't have to declare your accuracy jumps for anything other than pro-rating do you? Makes a bit of a farce really as you can decide that where your feet touched down was where you wanted to land.

However I will get my accuracy jumps signed off by an instructor from now on.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[theonlyski 8]

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It seems there is wiggle room in that the SIM requires the activities to be 'signed by' and not witnessed. Do they need to sign each jump in your logbook, or is another skydiver's signature enough?

I've never had an issue with anyone looking at the signature and seeing if it had some sort of -I, -I/E, -S&TA, -BOD at the end of it. Most of my jumps have been fun jumps, with few/no instructors jumping with us because they were working.

Ofcourse, I honestly did make all of the required criteria, just didn't go chasing down people at the DZ to say 'Hey, did you see that landing in the peas, can you sign this?'

Worst I can figure is that if they doubt my ability to put it in the peas, make 2 points on an 8 way (psh, lets make it something fun!), or any of the other license requirements for A/B/C, I'll just show them in person.

A lot of the sport is personal responsibility. I know that you're SUPPOSSED to have an instructor sign off on it, but let's face it, they get busy and won't always see you doing the things that needed to be signed.

I've also (as a coach and rigger) vouched for students completing some of the tasks to an instructor, never had an issue with that either.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[DiverMike 5]

I contacted USPA and they indicated it was their intent to leave it completely up to the discretion of the instructor who is signing the application. If that -I, -I/E, -S&TA, -BOD trusts/believes you and is willing to sign without actually witnessing the skill, then USPA is ok with it.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[popsjumper 2]

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Besides you don't have to declare your accuracy jumps for anything other than pro-rating do you?

At this DZ you are supposed to declare accuracy jumps for any license/rating requirements before you board the plane....er.....technically. There are a couple of AFFIs here that will sign anything anytime with no verification or proof of any sort.

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However I will get my accuracy jumps signed off by an instructor from now on.

You "owe" me a couple of accuracy jumps already, don't you?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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I contacted USPA and they indicated it was their intent to leave it completely up to the discretion of the instructor who is signing the application.

Solution: Shop around 'till you find that one who will sign anything, anytime, for anybody...you're good to go.

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If that -I, -I/E, -S&TA, -BOD trusts/believes you and is willing to sign without actually witnessing the skill, then USPA is ok with it.

Yup.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[nigel99 555]

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Quote

Besides you don't have to declare your accuracy jumps for anything other than pro-rating do you?

At this DZ you are supposed to declare accuracy jumps for any license/rating requirements before you board the plane....er.....technically. There are a couple of AFFIs here that will sign anything anytime with no verification or proof of any sort.

Quote

However I will get my accuracy jumps signed off by an instructor from now on.

You "owe" me a couple of accuracy jumps already, don't you?

Wasn't sure of the general policy. As you know I had the towel out for a couple of weekends

By my count I "owe" you 24 accuracy jumps.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.