stability question

[uberchris 0]

ok heres one, i tried to see if anyone had asked but search didnt help, nor did a google search...

whats the best way to get myself unstable and preferably tumbling in my P3?

i want to start getting myself into highly unstable situations so that i can practice trying to regain stability without closing my leg wings, as in bigger suits you wont have that option. what ive heard is that going headdown and getting into a superfast dive to get out of your tumbling is the best way. correct? any advice?

i was thinking maybe i could just forcefully raise one leg and lower the other in hopes of getting into a spin/tumble

gravity brings me down.........

[mccordia 74]

Dont try to get unstable, but learn to backfly, loop, flip, roll and twist through the sky.
Learn to analyze what input and body position has what effect, and you wont get unstable and talk horror stories on spins etc. You'lll controll them and do them for fun.

Headdown dives etc are all good fun, but if you really know and understand more agressive acrobatics, not anything you'll ever need as you'll know how to effectivly counter whatever turn or move you find yourself in. Regardless if your outlook is skydiving or base, becoming more agile and in control in any orientation is an important basis and mandatory skill. Much more important than 'planking' for a full jump in 1 body position (learning-wise).

JC
FlyLikeBrick
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[uberchris 0]

point taken, thanks

gravity brings me down.........

[Bluhdow 31]

Do some front flips. Open up your legwing during the rotation.

That'll do the trick.

Apex BASE
#1816

[mccordia 74]

Bluhdow

Do some front flips. Open up your legwing during the rotation.

That'll do the trick.

No it wont...that will just put you back on your belly real quick.
Its not the flip or the legwing open during one that causes a spin. Its asymmetry in inputs, and after that, not doing the right thing to correct.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
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[dthames 0]

Look hard left and below you, then drop your right shoulder. See what that will do for you.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[mccordia 74]

dthames

Look hard left and below you, then drop your right shoulder. See what that will do for you.

If you do it right, a controlled 360 degree spin, ending up on the same heading as you started....

Guys and girls...stop trying to 'get into a spin' and start working on getting the actual control you need to avoid it. Work on barrelrolls, frontloops, 360 degree spins, steep dives, steep turns etc etc. That's the exercise you need to help yourself in an actual unstable moment.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
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[gzimmermann 0]

uberchris

....what ive heard is that going headdown and getting into a superfast dive to get out of your tumbling is the best way. correct? any advice?

http://skyvideo.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/skydive-elsinore-wingsuit-school-video-guides/

Has some advice on instability recovery, in the middle of the post. Just wanted to add this here. And no, you have to be able to close your leg wing also on bigger suits.

[Jbag 0]

try unzipping your arms mid-flight.

IHYD

[OccupytheSky 0]

I'm currently on a P3. I got unstable for the first time this past weekend while trying some backfly (around jump 30). I went into a dive and started spinning on my back. After practicing barrel rolls, loops, swooping down, lotta brakes, arched deployments, etc it was pretty intuitive to get out of it. So, in my limited experience, I would have to agree with what everyone is saying about just focusing on learning to fly well in the more dynamic orientations/maneuvers to give your self the tools you need should the situation arise

SCR 15081, SCS 8334, TDS 893

[DSE 5]

Unzipping isn't much harder than flying without wings.

Practice the things that potentially cause instability vs creating intentional instability, as Jarno suggests. Then you'll feel what that moment of control loss feels like and recognize it when it happens for real.

[WickedWingsuits 0]

My 2c. Regardless of how you get unstable you should experience instability and recovery before you feel you can "upsize".

I did some coached jumps for the BPA WS2 stamp and that required instability out of the door with on heading recovery. Cant beat an exit and then opening a single arm wing for that.

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[The111 1]

Touch your right foot with your left hand.

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[mccordia 74]

The111

Touch your right foot with your left hand.

Wanna bet that even that can be done 'in control' if you understand the actual inputs?
As to 'experiencing instability before upsizing'...NO! You dont. You need to be able to actually fly your body vs that fulltime planking exercise most people call training.

Every good and experienced FS or FF jumper can tell you which input generates what turn or directional motion. Most wingsuit pilots talk about leaning and just doing this or that but lack an actual understanding on the subtle inputs needed to generate or counter motion on any given axis.

Train more, get more assertive in your flying. Whats 'instability' to some, can be fun and awesome flying if you train it...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[uberchris 0]

well id say this thread definitely helped me out in alot of ways. here i am talking about jump numbers, and worrying about bigger suits, etc etc, i need to slow the FUCK down with that train of thought..........
thanks for everyones inputs, ive got alot of work to do with my P3 for a while and ill worry about WS BASE and biggers suits later.

first things first, ive got to spend every last penny from now on instead of saving for separating from the military at the end of the year, on WS skydiving!!!!!!!!
if i become a bum, at least ill have a SICK array of awesome gear and i can always live out of my car!
thanks jarno and everyone else for the .02

gravity brings me down.........

[mccordia 74]

Quote

I did some coached jumps for the BPA WS2 stamp and that required instability out of the door with on heading recovery. Cant beat an exit and then opening a single arm wing for that.

Again...if you think about which surface does what, and which input generates what motion. You can do any exit, with only one arm wing, no armwings, or any type of turn of asymmetrical body position..and fully in control. Without the need to ever 'go instable' to learn to control those moves.

One armwing - video

With all this 'go unstable before going to a big suit' it would be nice if people thought more about the actual flying itself, and the control needed. A lot of the 'crazy acrobatics' people often mention, are (in my view) essential basics and survival tools for ANYONE serious about wingsuit flying or going to bigger wingsuits.

If you 'go unstable' without understanding the input you gave, why is there even use to trying to learn how to get out of that. Focus your learning on the actual inputs themselves that make you move in each direction.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
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[airbornesid 0]

Just extra food for thought as well from a anon internet guy , since your talking about looking to WS BASE and obviously not thinking of P3 as suitable, why not? i spent my 1st wsbase season and half (130 jumps in 3 countries) on a P2R and still kind of miss it from being forgiving of poor exits at the beginning to buzzing the switchback later on and opening high consistantly over the ITW landing area , so much fun. Unless your constantly jumping ie: live in the mountains (which i now do :-) ) dont think you'll ever need another suit apart from the p3. But thats just my POV.

Regarding the stability and acro , ive always enjoyed throwing the suits around much more fun than planking and in the last 6 months ive done much more skydiving than in recent years combined and think its really helped with my big suit flying as well (although my distance flying still not as good as it could be ) .

So just have fun flying really :-)

Graeme

[WickedWingsuits 0]

I come at this as a pilot, you must do instability recovery as part of that training. Sure it helps you identify that you are about to go into a spin but you sure can't beat being able to keep a cool head and recover from multiple rotations.

Being able to understand inputs does you no good at all when you are slammed mid air and need to recover or get kicked on exit.

I for one will continue to keep instability recovery as part of my coaching.

Agreed, instability is FUN, when you have altitude on your side and clear skies. Best practiced there before experiencing it in a far less forgiving environment.

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[DSE 5]

Simon,
There is a difference between teaching people what to do when they go unstable, vs getting into a suit and spending time trying to intentionally go unstable.

Of course instability recovery should be part of any proper FFC, and it should be tested on the ground, drilled religiously, no different than an AFFI teaches emergency procedures. This is a different conversation.

[WickedWingsuits 0]

DSE

There is a difference between teaching people what to do when they go unstable, vs getting into a suit and spending time trying to intentionally go unstable.

Totally agreed.

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[The111 1]

mccordia

***Touch your right foot with your left hand.

Wanna bet that even that can be done 'in control' if you understand the actual inputs?

Nah, I'd rather bet we can do a tight flock all flying like that.

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