shibu 1 #1 July 6, 2011 How does a pilot chute become entangled with the bridle.. I would like to know so I can prevent it from happening to me when I pack.. http://www.iloveskydiving.org/view/videos/friday-freakout-shit-meet-fan/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #2 July 6, 2011 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3964242 Check post #42 and beyond (discussion of the same incident with some discussion of prevention)."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #3 July 7, 2011 Sometimes it just happens. I have personally seen in the last 4 months the bridle in a perfect halfhitch around the PC. Sometimes when you throw the PC and bridle out into 120 MPH airstream crazy things happen. The result was a cutaway and reserve deployment from a PC in tow.. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinciflies 0 #4 July 7, 2011 QuoteSometimes it just happens. I have personally seen in the last 4 months the bridle in a perfect halfhitch around the PC. Sometimes when you throw the PC and bridle out into 120 MPH airstream crazy things happen. The result was a cutaway and reserve deployment from a PC in tow.. I wonder if this sometimes happens as the PC is withdrawn from the BOC. Could it be a packing error, not just a "shit happens"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #5 July 7, 2011 QuoteQuoteSometimes it just happens. I have personally seen in the last 4 months the bridle in a perfect halfhitch around the PC. Sometimes when you throw the PC and bridle out into 120 MPH airstream crazy things happen... I wonder if this sometimes happens as the PC is withdrawn from the BOC. Could it be a packing error, not just a "shit happens"? Yes, it could be done in packing. It could also happen from a pilot chute hesitation, where the pilot chute falls into the burble over your back, while the bridle is floating around loose, and then when the pilot chute catches air again and takes off, it tangles with the bridle. And sometimes even when everything is done right, shit happens anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #6 July 7, 2011 As stated, bouncing in the burble as well as a jumper holding onto the hacky/PC while at full arm extension thus allowing the bridle to flap around in the air flow and knot on its self. There used to be a good video of this happening on skydivingmovies.com when it was around. Also, sometime it just happens every once in awhile. Bridles longer than 9' from pin to PC also tend to be prone to this."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CloudyHead 0 #7 July 12, 2011 During my AFF program i was taught to always re-pack the PC as part of the gear check. Problem is, i was shown about 3 different ways. It would be nice to see a step-by-step guide on the best way to pack it. From what i recall the most important things to remember is that the excess bridle is tucked in, and that its not wrapped around the handle! it would be nice to know of the perfect packing technique though, if there is one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #8 July 12, 2011 Brian Germain has an instructional video on his preferred method, I am sure someone here can post a link as I dont have it. Honestly though, if you ask 10 skydivers the best way to stow the PC you will probably get 30 different methods... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divalent 136 #9 July 12, 2011 Quote... it would be nice to know of the perfect packing technique though, if there is one. There are many variants, but they are all very similar. This Brian Germain's technique, and is the one I use. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCeYlY_6io Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #10 July 12, 2011 Quote During my AFF program i was taught to always re-pack the PC as part of the gear check. I hope that's not a requirement because I never do THAT. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CloudyHead 0 #11 July 12, 2011 this is why i was always so nervous about doing this, because at my level i would have RATHER trusted the packer's job than my own.. I tried to skip this during my gear check but got in shit for it.. So then I would always run into manifest on a 20 minute call and spend most of that time trying to get the PC perfect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyper 0 #12 July 12, 2011 why don't you reserve some time to sit beside the packer (you apparently trust) and see how he is doing the packjob? those guys are usually friendly and willing to show you their way. Than try it for yourself... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #13 July 12, 2011 I think, most important is to extract and throw PC far away from your body in single motion, this prevents it from going up into its own bridle.Also NEVER hold PC in your hand after it is out of the pouch - bridle sometimes can open container and when you let go PC it can go trough the lines and under the bag and cause a bag-lock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divalent 136 #14 July 12, 2011 Quote ...So then I would always run into manifest on a 20 minute call and spend most of that time trying to get the PC perfect. It's really a pretty simple sequence of steps, and all the variants are basically minor variations of each step: 1. flop PC upside down. 2. fold in half (to make 1/2 moon) At this point, different techniques do things a bit differently, but the end result is that you end up shortening the width by another half (the simpliest variant is to just fold in half again by folding the curved side over to meet the hackey). 3. fan fold excess bridle on top of PC material. 4. roll up into a stick. 5. stuff into pocket But always preceed any technique with a check that the PC is cocked. A perfectly folded uncocked PC is not worth much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #15 July 12, 2011 One other benefit of using Brian Germain's method of folding the pilot chute is that if the pilot chute is not cocked, you won't be able to make the first fold. I once got sidetracked during packing and when I came back to finish, forgot to cock the PC. It wasn't until I was folding the PC that I realized my mistake.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divalent 136 #16 July 12, 2011 QuoteOne other benefit of using Brian Germain's method of folding the pilot chute is that if the pilot chute is not cocked, you won't be able to make the first fold. ... Wow, I didn't realized that until you said it. That is a most excellent point (and IIRC, he doesn't mention this in his video). That probably makes it the strongest rationale for using his method. Thanks for pointing this out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #17 July 12, 2011 +1 on the Brian Germain method Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #18 July 12, 2011 Quote I once got sidetracked during packing and when I came back to finish, forgot to cock the PC. It wasn't until I was folding the PC that I realized my mistake. It's important to have some "double checks" built into your packing routine. Although I don't use the BG method yet, I do have a PC double check before folding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #19 July 12, 2011 Quote I tried to skip this during my gear check but got in shit for it.. So then I would always run into manifest on a 20 minute call and spend most of that time trying to get the PC perfect. Well, at least they don't make you open the container and check that the brakes are set and the slider is up. Really, I think the person making your gear check rules has some trust issues. With practice, repacking a pilot chute should take less than a minute. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divalent 136 #20 July 12, 2011 Quote It's important to have some "double checks" built into your packing routine. Although I don't use the BG method yet, I do have a PC double check before folding. Yeah, a careful routine with built in double checks is very important. Nonetheless, sometimes your routine gets interrupted and/or rushed, or you are distracted while packing. If it's just a mental step, it is still possible to forget. Thus, it's nice to have a step where an error physically prevents you from doing what you want to do. It's not physically possible to fold the PC using the Germain method if you didn't cock the PC, so if you didn't, you can't fail to notice that you didn't. (Plus, there is the "peace of mind" aspect: you won't later worry that you might have failed to cock it because you can't remember whether or not you double checked it.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #21 July 12, 2011 While we're talking about double checks, how many people double check their brakes after they set them? I always give a good tug upward on the steering line after setting my brakes. That lets me check for any rigging mistakes. I hear so many people talking about "toggle fires" yet I've never had one. Could it possibly be bad packing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #22 July 12, 2011 Quote this is why i was always so nervous about doing this, because at my level i would have RATHER trusted the packer's job than my own.. I tried to skip this during my gear check but got in shit for it.. So then I would always run into manifest on a 20 minute call and spend most of that time trying to get the PC perfect. And that's what makes this sound like a bad idea to me. When you're down to a 20-minute call, you've got more important things to worry about than re-packing a pilot chute that a trusted packer has already packed. By wasting time re-doing that, you're denying yourself valuable time that you need to devote to other things, like reviewing your exit and your dive flow, and emergency procedures. And besides, if the packer can't be trusted to do the pilot chute correctly, then you should remove the entire main canopy and repack that also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpsalot-2 3 #23 July 12, 2011 Quote this is why i was always so nervous about doing this, because at my level i would have RATHER trusted the packer's job than my own.. I tried to skip this during my gear check but got in shit for it.. So then I would always run into manifest on a 20 minute call and spend most of that time trying to get the PC perfect. Quote At your level, you should have taken a full packing couse ( and water training ) by now. Even if you are still renting gear. . Life is short ... jump often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #24 July 12, 2011 Quote Well, at least they don't make you open the container and check that the brakes are set and the slider is up. Really, I think the person making your gear check rules has some trust issues. We teach students to repack the PC when doing gear checks. The same gear is used for IAD, and there is a second PC pouch on the left side of the container (it makes extracting the PC a lot easier). The gear usually gets packed with the PC in the side pouch. We teach students to check where it is as part of their gear check, and how to repack it. I don't know if this is CloudyHead's situation, but it is possible there is a reason he was taught that."It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #25 July 13, 2011 Interesting. Well, that would be a very good reason to repack it, because it was not in the right pouch. If that's the case, cool. If not, well, that's probably more thorough than I'll ever be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
