Jumping with 2 PCs?

[Frodo 0]

I think I've seen it on some video -- a building jump with a pilot chute in each hand. Do people use this variation often? I downloaded about 20 other BASE videos and I don't see anybody else using 2. Maybe it could even save several lives. For example, Lukas's - apparently he had some time after he noticed his PC is caught in turbulence, so he would've had enough time to go for the other PC, right? Just a thought.

[TomAiello 26]

Can you give more explanation for what you mean?

I've never even heard of such a system. The only rig I can think of that might match this description is Vertigo's Sorcerer (which has a second canopy and a PC for it), but you wouldn't exit with one in each hand.

Is it possible that the video you saw was either:

a) A "spoof" video: People have been known to jump with a detached hand-held PC, pitch it, flail and scream to freak out on-lookers, then pitch the (real) stowed PC.

or

b) A daisy chain: One jumper holds his own PC in his right hand, and his partner's in his left. He pitches his own,then holds onto his partner's, effectively PCAing his partner when his own canopy reaches bottom skin expansion.

I think there is some video of Karin's Boyfriend and Mr. 500 doing a daisy chain jump (into water--as I recall it was the infamous "too extreme for the X-games demo") on Beyond Extreme.

If you're thinking of trying to rig up a dual-PC system, be aware that you are a test jumper, and accept the risks that it entails.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[DexterBase 1]

ooohhhh... Scary. One works just fine. Where did you see this video?

[hookitt 1]

The only footage I'm aware of where the jumper had 2 pilot chutes was some old footage shot from a Famous Bridge over a bay.

He was using round parachutes.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Frodo 0]

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If you're thinking of trying to rig up a dual-PC system, be aware that you are a test jumper, and accept the risks that it entails.

With 3 skydives? nope, it's too early for me to BASE. But if I'm lucky, I might make my first base jump at the Bridge day 2004.

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Where did you see this video?

I think it was RealTV. By that time I already have read quite a lot about BASE, so I was quite informed on the part of equipment. Otherwise I wouldn't even have paid attention to such a detail, would I?

Again, it seems like a good idea to me: I don't believe that two PCs might both get caught in dead air; and even if the bridles get tangled, it won't prevent both PCs to inflate, methinks.

[DexterBase 1]

I believe the opposite to be true. KISS= Keep It Simple Stupid. (not calling you stupid, it's just how the acronym goes)

One reliable pilot chute that will not tangle with anything is battle proven.

Two would be adding an unnecessary tangle hazard.

Also, one is easier to concentrate on. Imagine going stowed and only getting one PC out. Do you know what happens now?

[hookitt 1]

The 2 pilot chute test has been done over and over. It will at some point get tangled or interfere with proper inflation. That = seriosly bad things happening to the jumper. You can interpret what seriously bad is.

The Video involved 2 Pilot chutes and 2 round parachutes.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Faber 0]

Well i have seen somthing similar(1st. BASE?or Cronicel 3)Were this guy goes handheld from a B,when the canopi inflates he lose somthing whis looks like a PC,but think its from his "storrege"at his belly and not a Pc he intended to "use".How ever cant see if its a pc or a stashbag.. logic a stashbag i think. I´ll try to find the video later today,and the min,inside the movie so someone knowing better than me can have a viev..

Keep it simpel(well atleast some of it)

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[konradptr 0]

What possible advantages would two PCs provide? Also, why not have 3 or 4, if two is better than one?

------------------------------------------
Getting banned isn't that bad......

[Faber 0]

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What possible advantages would two PCs provide?

im just a newbie(and not good at english).but i think 2 pc´s would give problems instead of one.. if its becours you need a harder pull you should use a larger pc..But this can damage your canopi,and rember theres no kill line one so a 48 would be like a drouge.see pic were my kid on 3 years is coparred to a 48´ thanks for helping me Tom,and thanks to BR for great support).

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Frodo 0]

Same principle as why you have two rather than one, and at the same time two, rather than 3 or 4, canopies in the rig ( I mean skydiving). One -- too risky. 3+ too complicated and expensive for the elusive small reduction of the already reduced risk.

Why a second pc would help? Because if one hesitates, the other, independent from the first, will most likely still inflate in time. You can't afford pc hesitation jumping off a 200ft object can you?

BTW a question about delays. I just don't want to create a new topic for it. How do you decide when to pull? By sight (or "when you get scared"), or do you count seconds in freefall, or do you have something audible on your helmet?
And a question aabout tracking, or better say, out-tracking the cliffs. I'm watching this video called "Arch - marc" maybe you guys know it (the file name is "archv.ram"), and it looks like the guy out-tracks the ledge (or maybe it's called talus, sorry for my english) by mere feet. So how do you decide whether to go for it or not? During the fall? If yes... damn, I should probably just get used to it... I mean, skydiving is ok with me in terms of risks, BASE looks ok too, but doing this kind of stuff - just "go for it" not knowing if there ever was a theoretical possibility of success... thats too much for me yet.

[Faber 0]

One -- too risky

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only becours theres time to a reserve and that many skydivers dont take the time to know why their gear works=meaning poor packjobs(i did it my self).Im sure if you legal could go lover from a skydive..there would be some BASE jumpers that would try,all through it then would be a skydive and not a BASE.

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Because if one hesitates, the other, independent from the first

Or get both pc´s entangled so none will work..

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You can't afford pc hesitation jumping off a 200ft object can you?

you cant effort it af any jumps were you dont have a reserve

edit: I've moved the "when to pull" discussion to another thread. ~Tom Aiello

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[base570 1]

Faber,
I like the new PC design but I think your going to have inflation issues with a large child like that attached. I would suggest a smaller child... maybe in the 0-6 month range.
Oh and going stowed is out of the question. I would hate to have that dreaded malfunction; the breech.
570

have you been back to your "A" and gotten pictures yet?

[Faber 0]

smaler kid huh...
here ya go(oldest is Michelle3,5 years,youngest is Sarah 2years)

and yes im sure she were afraid.. wouldnt you be if you were ontop of sush a pc?

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 26]

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Same principle as why you have two rather than one, and at the same time two, rather than 3 or 4, canopies in the rig ( I mean skydiving).

The principles that have guided skydivers to put two canopies into their rigs are largely irrelevant to the BASE environment.

A reserve canopy makes sense if

(a) you have altitude to use it--we don't.
(b) you pack the first one fast, and keep the careful pack job--we use the careful pack job on every jump.
(c) you have a potentially squirrely high performance canopy as a main--we don't.

Given the situation, the addition of a second canopy is, in my opinion, a needless complexity with very little return. The vast majority of BASE jumpers probably share this opinion, given the tiny market share afforded to the Sorcerer (the only two canopy BASE rig on the market).

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Why a second pc would help? Because if one hesitates, the other, independent from the first, will most likely still inflate in time.

Imagine the possible problem scenarios, though. What if your PC's both orbit--in opposite directions? What if one is later than the other, and is still dancing around in the airspace the canopy inflates in--and wrapping it's bridle around your inflating pack job.

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You can't afford pc hesitation jumping off a 200ft object can you?

Actually, I've experienced noticeable PC hesitation from below 200 feet. What I really can't afford is a needlessly complex system at 200 feet.

I have a reputation for being too experimental with my gear. I have one friend who thinks that over-experimentation put me in the hospital at least once. This two PC's thing is such a bad idea that even I dismiss it after about thirty minutes of thinking about the possible problems. I really like seeing new jumpers thinking about the systems, and questioning the current gear--that's what makes it evolve and improve. But on this one, all I see happening is one of those "ebay jumper" fatalities.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

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BTW a question about delays. I just don't want to create a new topic for it.

I do. Let's start a new thread.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[base570 1]

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...
Why a second pc would help? Because if one hesitates, the other, independent from the first, will most likely still inflate in time. You can't afford pc hesitation jumping off a 200ft object can you?

from 200ft. you don't have time to go for an alternate PC, you don't have time for a hesitation. If anything in the chain malfunctions, even just a little bit, your going to pound-in or die. A second PC would be more of an entanglement issue than anything else, 1 is better. Make sure your 100% confident that the PC you choose WILL NOT give you a Hesi.

BTW a question about delays. I just don't want to create a new topic for it. How do you decide when to pull? By sight (or "when you get scared"), or do you count seconds in freefall, or do you have something audible on your helmet?

I just "eyeball" it on most slider-up jumps (200 or so) especially terminal jumps. I have found it to be the best and most accurate way for me. Ground rush rocks!! Others that I know watch the lights on "A"'s, watch the horizon, or count. It's all about what works best for you. On my slider-down jumps (200 or so )I almost always do some sort of internal counting in my head. Audibles, I believe, are a way to get you killed in BASE. They just aren't as accurate as we need them to be.

And a question aabout tracking, or better say, out-tracking the cliffs. I'm watching this video called "Arch - marc" maybe you guys know it (the file name is "archv.ram"), and it looks like the guy out-tracks the ledge (or maybe it's called talus, sorry for my english) by mere feet. So how do you decide whether to go for it or not? During the fall? If yes... damn, I should probably just get used to it... I mean, skydiving is ok with me in terms of risks, BASE looks ok too, but doing this kind of stuff - just "go for it" not knowing if there ever was a theoretical possibility of success... thats too much for me yet.

don't try it unless you have done a bunch of test jumps and calculations to be sure you have a chance of survival. (whatever percentage your comfy with). Then remember that if you alter your track, even just a tiny bit, from 'perfect' your going to hit the talus and die. From your profile I can tell that you are NOT ready to accept the risks of BASE jumping, you haven't even explored skydiving yet, and the risks involved with that. Take it slow and learn as much as possible before hucking yourself off something. Skydiving is fun too!!

570

[skydiverek 63]

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I'm watching this video called "Arch - marc" maybe you guys know it (the file name is "archv.ram"), and it looks like the guy out-tracks the ledge (or maybe it's called talus, sorry for my english) by mere feet.

Where is that video???

[riggersam 1]

I've seen video of jumpers using a pilot chute in one hand and a small canopy in the other, but not from a building. The video I have seen is OLD (early to mid 80's?) and they were only jumping over water.

The small canopy looks like it was only 5 or 6 ft in diameter. so I understand why someone might confuse it with a PC. They would throw the PC first and just about the time they got linestretch, they'd toss this "backup canopy". I guess the theory was that if their one and only "real" parachute failed, this thing would slow them down at least a little - and a little was better than nothing.

I agree it seems a bit silly and more dangerous by todays standards, but those were the days when some CRW jumpers wore tertiaries. How many do that today?

I think the video I have seen is of one of the "H" brothers. One of them should be able to comment more.

Mark

[Frodo 0]

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Where is that video???

I did a big long search, with Kazaa, Google, and then the one that helped me most is alltheweb.com. Now I have about 260 megs of skydiving and 80 megs of BASE videos (that's after filtering out some crappy ones).

[Faber 0]

but were did you find the movie?... would like to see it

About the video i talked about it were a lost somthing as i wrote...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Frodo 0]

Sorry man, don't remember, but if you have a fast connection, I'll gladly send'em to you. (via Kazaa, an FTP program or whatever)

[Faber 0]

okay.. ill pm you monday or so,when im home

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[leroydb 0]

wow huge pc

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[base428 1]

Some of Carl B's old videos showed jumpers using 2 PC's with round canopies over a river. I've got the footage here on VHS. Looks like early 80's stuff.

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