Which is more dangerous

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Which do you feel is more dangerous? Swooping or base jumping?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[TomAiello 26]

When I first started BASE jumping, I asked the same question of one of the camera men at the DZ. He had around 10,000 skydives, and about 400 BASE jumps. His answer:

"Well, I'm still swooping."

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Faber 0]

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I asked the same question of one of the camera men at the DZ. He had around 10,000 skydives, and about 400 BASE jumps. His answer:

"Well, I'm still swooping."

but did he stop BASE...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Zennie 0]

What if you still do both?

I think it depends on the skills of the person. Some are just naturally good swoopers but would not have an easy of a time BASE jumping. The reverse is also true.

I personally think swooping is more dangerous. My roomate, who does competetive swooping, thinks BASE is more dangerous.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Having zero BASE jumps under my belt, I'm obviously not very qualified to talk about this sport. But BASE seems to have many more unknown variables to each jump that swooping doesn't have. So in that respect I do believe that BASE may be more dangerous. But the margin for error in both disciplines is small, and they are obviously both dangerous (but fun).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[base704 0]

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Having zero BASE jumps under my belt, I'm obviously not very qualified to talk about this sport.

so..why do it?

You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone.

[rfarris 2]

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Having zero BASE jumps under my belt, I'm obviously not very qualified to talk about this sport.

.....and having zero swoops under a highly loaded canopy I'd not be qualified to talk about that sport either. Well, unless you consider .73 to be highly loaded.

In response to the original post, I would say swooping a highly loaded canopy is more dangerous. The timing of the whole swoop has to be dead on or you are toast. It's fun to watch though.

I would imagine making your first BASE jump would be similar to making your first swoop under a high performance canopy. You are just not sure how it's gonna turn out, and if it goes bad, you will know it real quick.

I need a beer.

cya
Rod

[caerdydd 0]

"BASE seems to have many more unknown variables to each jump that swooping doesn't have."

Really? Jumping out of a Twin Otter, you've got maybe 23 other "unknown variables" flying around you doing their own thing, while you're trying to do your swoop. A well-known DZO recently died that way.
Swooping is not isolated, BASE (usually) is, and in BASE, most of our variables ARE known, not UNKNOWN. Sure, stuff can go wrong, but I'm more worried about the "variables" that can affect a swoop... other canopies, dust-devils, rotors, not to mention lack of ability and poor judgement, lost toggles, etc etc. Every month femurs snap, people die or become paralyzed. Like a very good friend of mine recently.
(And yet, "Parachutist" magazine actively encourages people to swoop, by promoting the swoop competitions around the globe. And they censor BASE!!?? Whatup with that sh-t?)
I'm not saying people shouldn't swoop, but I do think it's WAY more dangerous than BASE.

[Shotgun 1]

Comparing apples and oranges, dude.

Either one will kill you if you don't give it the respect it deserves...

Hell, either one may kill you anyway.

[hookitt 1]

BASE is a choice that few people make because the possibility of serious injury or death is greatly increased. I'm an Avid swooper and have enough jumps from Fixed objects to realize this. Not all, but many BASE jumpers will jump from Any thing high enough to allow a parachute to inflate. Therefore the limits are pushed on a much grander scale than a swoop. There is SO-MUCH-MORE to becoming a skilled BASE jumper than just leaping off an object and tossing a pilot chute.

Now after 1000's of swoop landings, Only a few of them truly put me in serious danger. BASE jumping on the other hand... (now open for flames)

These sports are very different, and require different mindsets and skills. There is no way for me or any one to explain this affectively to a skydiver, and I'm an avid skydiver.

By the way Canuck, good question, Talk about it all you want.

Tom A pointed out a jumper who is still swooping... that truly sums it up.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[The111 1]

Rfarris is right about wing loading. It's all relative. As inexperienced as I am, I would do a BASE jump with my normal rig from a 4000 ft cliff (if one exists). But I wouldn't try to swoop even an 0.5 loaded canopy.

Each sport is made more dangerous by how far you push the limits (height of BASE jump or wing loading of canopy).

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[TomAiello 26]

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As inexperienced as I am, I would do a BASE jump with my normal rig from a 4000 ft cliff (if one exists).

[BASE Nazi Rant]This kind of thing is the height of foolishness. It sounds like the skydiver who told me "well, I'd jump from a plane at that height."

Sure, but would you jump from a plane at that height, then track for 18 seconds, then dump next to a wall?

Making a BASE jump from a 4000' cliff might be safer than some other BASE jumps. But doing it on a skydiving rig would be significantly more dangerous than making a standard BASE jump from 400' with a BASE rig.

Personally, I'd be willing to freefall a 200' building on proper gear long before I'd take any skydiving rig off any object, under any conditions.

It's a cliff, not an airplane. That means there are a lot more things to worry about, that you never have to think about on a skydive. Unlike skydiving, danger in BASE is far more dependent on other factors than on altitude.[/BASE Nazi Rant]

Sorry to rant, but thinking that altitude necessarily equates to safety is a good way to become a statistic in a hurry.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[DexterBase 1]

I got into it once in a different forum about this. It still frustrates me.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[BASE813 0]

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(height of BASE jump

Why does everyone think the higher the safer?!?!?!?!

thats a false security.................

be safe!

[dragon2 2]

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(height of BASE jump

Why does everyone think the higher the safer?!?!?!?!

thats a false security.................

be safe!

I've had tandem passengers tell me they wanted to go jump themselves, but they'd prefer BASE to skydiving, cause, well, ya know, that's closer to the ground, so that's definitely way safer!!

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[The111 1]

Thanks for the reply Tom, believe it or not I had already thought about the proximity of the vertical wall, and I did exaggerate a bit when I said I would gladly do such a thing in my normal rig. I would never really do something like that without asking experts first. What exactly makes a BASE rig different though, out of curiosity? To me a 200 ft jump sounds insane, but again I'm pretty ignorant on this stuff.

I didn't mean to imply that altitude is the only danger in BASE, but I know it is a significant one. In my ignorant mind, the main risk being a malfunction of your main (do BASE rigs have reserves?), in which case you're definitely screwed, right? Correct me if I'm wrong... I often make conjectures which occur as statements of fact... I've never claimed to know anything and I'll gladly admit when I'm wrong. :)

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[DexterBase 1]

Actually, the proximity of that wall is your primary risk. It's also the leading cause of BASE jumping fatalities. Very few fatalities (on BASE specific gear) are caused by malfunctioning canopies. On a BASE jump, there are so many dangers that the possibility of your parachute, "not opening," is completely overshadowed.

There is one BASE rig available with a reserve (the Sorcerer) but for most jumps and most BASE jumpers, a reserve would serve no purpose. This is because on a BASE jump you will usually delay your deployment to maximize freefall time.

Since you are intentionally using up your available altitude, a conservative delay will put you in a proximity to the ground where you will probably not have enough time to attempt a reserve deployment. There simply isn't enough time to try to get a reserve out at less than 100 feet.

Since a reserve isn't really practical to use in BASE it has become accepted to simply get rid of the reserve and focus all attention to getting the main out right the first time. If you ever get a chance to watch a BASE packjob, you'll see an amazing attention to detail. There are also several modifications that are specific to BASE rigs that increase the odds of a successful deployment.

A BASE rig is extremely simple. You basically have a harness, a container to hold the canopy, risers, special toggles, a canopy, a bridle, and a pilot chute.

There's very few parts that can malfunction, since there aren't that many parts to begin with.

As far as risks... they're really endless. Where you can use the same equipment configuration for practically every skydive you do, in BASE you will often need to reconfigure your entire setup for each jump. Any slight rigging error will probably kill you. Once you're in a position to jump, there are many more factors that must be evaluated than on a skydive.

You're playing for all the marbles, you have no second chances, and the ground is hard and unforgiving of ignorance.

When you're at the exit point, you could very well be inside the last 10 seconds of your life. Suddenly skydiving seems like a better idea huh?

[The111 1]

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On a BASE jump, there are so many dangers that the possibility of your parachute, "not opening," is completely overshadowed.

Overshadowed, but still a risk, no? I do understand your point though.

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Where you can use the same equipment configuration for practically every skydive you do, in BASE you will often need to reconfigure your entire setup for each jump.

Again, my ignorance reigns supreme, but does it make sense that if you configure your rig for the lowest possible jump, you could use that same configuration for all other (higher) jumps? Correct me if I'm wrong...

Again, I have no experience in the area, but I still feel like the low altitude is a significant risk. You even mention how any minor rigging error can kill you... as far as I know, the reason for these rigging procedures is DUE to the low altitude. I'd be curious to find a BASE fatality statistics page, but somehow I doubt there is one. You repeatedly mention that there are "many" risks besides low altitude, but all I can really think about are vertical walls or bad landing areas, which could be avoided by selecting good locations. I've only heard of a few BASE fatalities that I've read about in mainstream publications, but all of them seemed to be in open areas, death from impact against a horizontal ground, and nothing else. I can only assume that if the ground had been 2500 ft lower and the jumper had a reserve, he would not have gone in.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[dragon2 2]

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I'd be curious to find a BASE fatality statistics page, but somehow I doubt there is one.

There's an interesting link in this discussion:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=556771#556771

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I'd be curious to find a BASE fatality statistics page

How's this?:

http://juliabell.home.att.net/

Hook

[dragon2 2]

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I'd be curious to find a BASE fatality statistics page

How's this?:

http://juliabell.home.att.net/

Hook

Beat yah

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[The111 1]

Yeh, I just found that on my own through Google. And as I had guessed, a noticeable majority of them were from failed or malfunctioned deployments. True, these failures may have been due to BASE specific packing requirements, but these requirements are due to.... low altitude!

Another large proportion was due to impacting vertical walls as said earlier. Still not sure what all the "so many dangers" are that overshadow the risk of gear failure at low altitude (which as I pointed out seemed pretty significant according to the fatality page). I didn't see any that were not either:
a) Gear malfunction, death on horizontal surface
or
b) Off heading opening, death on vertical surface

Again, I'm not claiming to know a thing about BASE jumping personally, but I'm making observations based on what I currently know...

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[blair700 0]

reply]

Again, my ignorance reigns supreme, but does it make sense that if you configure your rig for the lowest possible jump, you could use that same configuration for all other (higher) jumps? Correct me if I'm wrong...

[The111 1]

Thank you Blair, obviously I didn't take into account the fact the different deployment delays will create different deployment speeds. I still feel like all this attention to gear though, simply reinforces the fact the low altitude jumps are dangerous.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[DexterBase 1]

I see the logic behind your conclusions, unfortunately non of them apply accurately to BASE.

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Again, my ignorance reigns supreme, but does it make sense that if you configure your rig for the lowest possible jump, you could use that same configuration for all other (higher) jumps? Correct me if I'm wrong...

This is wrong. I think it's beyond the scope of this thread to elaborate, but basically, the parachute must be configured to open at a rate compatible with your freefall speed. Failure to do so will result in an extremely hard opening, damage to the equipment, damage to the jumper, or all three.

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You even mention how any minor rigging error can kill you... as far as I know, the reason for these rigging procedures is DUE to the low altitude.

The application for some of these procedures is for low altitude jumps, yes. But this has nothing to do with why the errors occur. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

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I'd be curious to find a BASE fatality statistics page, but somehow I doubt there is one.

Not a statistics page, but enough to get you started. The List

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I've only heard of a few BASE fatalities that I've read about in mainstream publications, but all of them seemed to be in open areas, death from impact against a horizontal ground, and nothing else. I can only assume that if the ground had been 2500 ft lower and the jumper had a reserve, he would not have gone in.

Read the above list and tell me if you still think that. Then re-read my first reply, particularly the part referring to intentionally using available altitude.

My advice to you is to read all you can about BASE jumping. After you have more knowledge of the sport, you'll be able to ask more accurate questions.