base428 1 #1 January 9, 2004 The mandatory helmets issue has been brewing for years and I would like your honest opinions on this. In preparation for Bridge Day 2004, I'm considering the implementation of a helmet rule. Helmets were mandatory for anyone who jumped during the IPBC competitions recently. Everyone knows that helmets do work. And if you saw the guy who smashed his head into the back of the NPS cherrypicker at Bridge Day 2003, then you'll know why I'm posting this. While Bridge Day has not had a helmet rule in the past (that I'm aware of), it has been highly suggested by a few people. I realize that a helmet rule will hide your beautiful face for all the photos, however, some of us just aren't that pretty and need to cover up anyway So please vote and, if you desire, post your opinions. Thanks for your input.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #2 January 9, 2004 cant really se why not... by the way its the perfect place to secure a camera so we get even more video from the event but who am i to say,i just use my safty gear when i can,and such a event would be the place were i would use the full setup. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blair700 0 #3 January 9, 2004 I don't think helmets should be mandatory, I think its a personal choice. I was happy to comply with the 'rule' this year for a diving board jump. For me personally, I choose to wear a helmet on every jump; save a couple on the legal potato span. Good luck with whatever you decide Blair Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #4 January 9, 2004 I don't think so. Bridge Day is such a wild affair, and that's where it's roots lie. I think that every little requirement erodes the spirit of BD just a little bit. On the practical side, I think that helmets will cause as many problems as they solve. The chances of striking something serious are fairly slim, while the chances of landing in the water are really quite good. A full face helmet on a water landing is a pain (I've done it about 15 times, and I dread it), and taken with a canopy and current, could be the thing that pushes an exciting water landing into a drowning. There is plenty of skydiving gear (of various kinds) at Bridge Day. Throwing in a whole bunch of RW helmets (that won't do much to protect from real head injury and make water landings significantly worse) on beginners just doesn't seem like it's worth the extra trouble it would cause.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PDXjumper 0 #5 January 9, 2004 Absolutely! Helmets should be worn on each and every BASE jump. Maybe the chances of a head strike are slim, but saving only one life will be worth it. (The chances of a 38" pilot chute failing are slim, but 42's are still required.) The arguement that lots of skydiving gear is used at Bridge Day is actually a wake up call, that use of skydiving gear should only be allowed if it is your first BASE jump, other than that, BASE gear should be required at Bridge Day. (That is, if anyone is making a return trip to NRGB for Bridge Day, they should have BASE specific gear. This will help the sport in a few ways, it will help validate the BASE gear, remember Jean Boenish did not want to allow BASE gear, it will get newer BASE jumpers up to speed with BASE gear, and it will help support the BASE gear manufacturers.) Also, if Bridge Day is a skydivers first BASE jump, that is the perfect opportunity to start their proper training, with proper gear, like body armor, helmet included. If you land in the water at Bridge Day, the first rule to follow is cut away your canopy, so there should be no safety issue there, the next thing that happens, is you are yanked into a boat, those guys are very good at what they do, the next thing the jumper will have to do is remove the helmet if it is a problem. Bridge Day should require the helmet rule. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggersam 1 #6 January 9, 2004 I wear a helmet on almost all my jumps. (The exceptions being those few intentional water landings) That said, I don't think helmets should be a "requirement" for BD, but I think you could turn up the volume on the fact that they are strongly recommended. Perhaps a clause could be added to the video waiver? Something like: "I understand that a full face helmet and kneepads have been proven to reduce the possibility of injury and that their use is very strongly recommended." On another point, how many helmets and kneepads did you see for sale at BD? I don't recall seeing any.. I took a quick look at the websites for BR, CR and Vertigo. While one sells boots, I couldn't find helmets or kneepads anywhere. Why not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #7 January 9, 2004 QuoteI took a quick look at the websites for BR, CR and Vertigo. While one sells boots, I couldn't find helmets or kneepads anywhere. Why not? Helmets and knee pads are commonly available almost everywhere, in sporting goods stores. The margins on them are small enough that it's probably not worthwhile for a BASE gear company to sell them, because they aren't really in the business of acting as a retailer--they only pick that up on a very limited number of specialty items. I'd say it boils down to economics.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #8 January 9, 2004 QuoteI couldn't find helmets or kneepads anywhere. Why not? most of us bring the helmet we use to skydive whith,i got a stronger one i only use for BASE,plus i have my skydive bonehead,which i use for video. Kneepads and helmets are easy to get in any skater store. bodyarmor do you get were you buy motor bike. Shooes,well there loads of stores for thouse i guess i simply think that theres so much out there so the BASE manufatores wouldnt sell much of it. Its might also comon sence,none of us would buy a pair of BR kneepads or CR shooes when we in most cityes can custom buy these things,whickh the BASE manufatores might need to sharge abit ekstra for(i dunno if my teory holds) just my thourght. After reading the posts after my own post i started to reconsidder. i never had a waterlanding so i cant talk about that. but i think that most would like to land in the dry LZ,and if you do so i see no reasson not to wear protection. I dunno how rules should be made(i dont really like them).i might just posted my answer too fast,i just thought of what I would do in such place whith out thinking of the fredom of BASE Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
outrager 6 #9 January 9, 2004 Yo ! I would rather have helmets as "highly recommended", as opposed to mandatory item. bsbd! Yuri. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base515 0 #10 January 9, 2004 How about we keep cherrypickers and other manmade objects out of the landing area instead?? Let's keep the creeping laws and regulations of big brother, that is taking over every other aspect of American life out of Bridge Day. Thanks Mom, but I can look out for myself. Mike May we live long and die out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #11 January 9, 2004 Thanks for everyone's input so far. Keep it up. While I'd love to see everyone be smart and wear a friggin' helmet, I also don't like new laws and regulations.....actually, I hate new laws. I think some common ground would be for us to "highly recommend" helmets, and even put a little checkbox on the waiver that says you'll try to wear one, but not make it mandatory. I would hate to see Joe Jumper smash his head on a rock and die, and then Mrs. Joe Jumper complaining that I "could've done more by making everyone wear a helmet". I guess the bottom line is that if you DIE, it's your responsibility. If you can't shoot accuracy very well and you smash your bare skull into something hard, then you deserve the pain you receive. If you've got tons of jumps and think nothing can happen to you, then you can take that chance and not wear a helmet. Although any smart jumper can see that sometimes skill just can't save you all the time. Some of the best in our sport are gone. Skill could not save them. Perhaps we could add a new trophy for Bridge Day 2003 that would accompany our "I would have dried faster than I'll heal" award. We could call it the "if I only wore a helmet, I would be conscious now" award. Please keep voting on this issue, but for now we'll keep Bridge Day the same. PS. Do any other legal BASE events require helmets besides IPBC?(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PDXjumper 0 #12 January 9, 2004 The last event in KL required helmets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #13 January 9, 2004 Since I'm looking at this BD as being my first BASE jump, I really don't have any input from an experienced jumper view point but how about making it manditory for all first time jumpers and highly recommended for everyone else?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jalisco 0 #14 January 9, 2004 In lieu of another rule... The Bridge Day Safety Awareness Campaign: "Got Helmet?" posters Stickers for your helmet that say "Intelligence Inside" Video: "This is your brain ... This is your brain on the side of a truck." Seriously, any kind of awareness raising you do might make some who hadn't really thought about it much decide to put on a helmet -- and maybe one or two others who hadn't really thought about not wearing one decide to stop wearing one (or try it once without). In either case, they're making a (more) conscious decision; probably a good thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #15 January 9, 2004 I think it should be a choice - I sometimes wear a helmet - I sometimes dont - I depends on how I assess the chances of me hitting my head on something that will bloody hurt! To be honest it should be a personal choice - and if it goes against you then you know you made the wrong choice. If your stupid enough not to wear protective gear on certain jumps then thats your fault - so the first timer going off then fucking up the landing and crashing through trees and pounding into a rocky area should have had respect for what they were about to do - and if they did not then maybe they should not have been doing it in the first place?!?! Just my two pieces of skull fractured and splintered!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treejumps 0 #16 January 9, 2004 No helmets, please. I never wear one, except for the diving board jump I did at BD 03'. I prefer the freedom and feel of not wearing one. Its just the way I like to do my thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base515 0 #17 January 9, 2004 Let's just let natural selection take it's course. Post the warnings and Post the good advice and then let whatever happens happen. What would be next, floation devices, asshole protectors from tree landings?? May we live long and die out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rfarris 2 #18 January 9, 2004 I voted "no"... Helmets, or any other safety gear is a personal choice. But I can see where from a politically correct standpoint, if it supported some kind of insurance requirement, or a lawyer's advice to avoid a law suit, you'd have to do what you have to do, and let those who want to comply have fun. Maybe an explanation why you'd even consider requiring helmets would clarify this issue more, for me anyway. Some of us newer jumpers may not be familiar with past proposed helmet laws at BASE events. Is it an insurance issue? Lawsuit thing? Just curious. I wear a helmet because there is always that chance I'd wish I had it on. Rod Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skinflicka 0 #19 January 10, 2004 QuoteThe arguement that lots of skydiving gear is used at Bridge Day is actually a wake up call, that use of skydiving gear should only be allowed if it is your first BASE jump, other than that, BASE gear should be required at Bridge Day. (That is, if anyone is making a return trip to NRGB for Bridge Day, they should have BASE specific gear. I'd say that the last thing a new jumper needs is to increase his chance of additional excitement by using skydiving gear which is more likely to provide exactly that. BASE gear for BASE. You wouldn't use a penguin as a tuxedo just cos they look similar. Just my .02 (as the Hydrocodone kicks in following this mornings root canal). Stay safe if not sane. Skin$kin. Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE813 0 #20 January 10, 2004 to me this kind of relates to the "BASE and skydiving associations" post that we have been bitching about on the UK Board - if you start setting rules then where do these rules stop?? How can you allow people to go off the span with some shitty gear (skydiving gear) or even as one vid I watched someone going tard with a VX - but then turn around and say "best you wear a helmet" - to me that is both against what BASE means in the freedom it gives you and hypocritical in the fact that "anything goes" but please wear a protective hat!!! If you are looking to make BD safer then basically stop the skydivers looking for a fareground ride jump just so they can say "I am a BASE jumper" from jumping! - there are more issues attached to BD then whether head protection is needed.......... just my two broken bones needing pinning coz i thought a really high bridge would be easy and almost a skydive!! as you may have guessed I still have issues on the whole BD thing.............. We all spend time telling people - you must have the right gear, you must have the right experience, blah blah blah but then come BD and to me it seems that all the rules go out of the window and skydivers can lob of a fixed object without the ethics that so many of us try to drum into people.............. I think BD is hypocritical............ open for discussion......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #21 January 10, 2004 QuoteI think BD is hypocritical............ open for discussion......... I think Bridge Day is Bridge Day, and BASE jumping is BASE jumping, and while there are some similarities, and some overlap, they aren't really the same thing. Bridge Day has it's own history, and it's own spirit, which is quite distinct from BASE as a whole.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE813 0 #22 January 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteI think BD is hypocritical............ open for discussion......... I think Bridge Day is Bridge Day, and BASE jumping is BASE jumping, and while there are some similarities, and some overlap, they aren't really the same thing. Bridge Day has it's own history, and it's own spirit, which is quite distinct from BASE as a whole. Good reply! - it aint BASE but I guess that some people once they do BD suddenly become "BASE jumpers"???? I understand the attraction (Im not into big boogie jumps at all) and that it opens the doors for some people - but in the end BD aint what BASE is about.......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skypuppy 1 #23 January 10, 2004 Strong words... When I started jumping at Bridge Day in '84 I didn't wear a helmet - and I used my skydiving gear... Ditto for the years after that I returned... Last year when I finally went back I wore a helmet (I often didn't wear helmets skydiving in the '80's and early '90's either, but now do on almost all jumps)... I must say next year I'll still wear a helmet, but I certainly think it felt better when I used to jump it without... So I think that it should be personal choice as to whether you wear a helmet or not... Likewise when I went back to Bridge Day last year I used my skydiving rig even though I had a base rig in the van. It wasn't the same rig I used to use but it was the same make and vintage. And I get awfully tired of hearing people say that you shouldn't be allowed to use skydiving gear off the bridge when, used properly, it's as safe as any other gear...If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE813 0 #24 January 10, 2004 QuoteI get awfully tired of hearing people say that you shouldn't be allowed to use skydiving gear off the bridge when, used properly, it's as safe as any other gear... how exactly is it as safe as a single parachute system? I beg to differ.............. but please tell me I am wrong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skypuppy 1 #25 January 10, 2004 On an 876' object with no object strike potential and a 42" pc with appropriate bridle, you can put any canopy you like (ie BASE or accuracy, not pocketrocket) in there with as much or as little chance of anything going wrong as on a one-parachute system... Which system had risers release out West before landing? Which systems were other jumpers on the same object using when they went in? You configure or choose gear for the object you're doing, and on BD there is nothing wrong with skydiving gear properly configured.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 0
base515 0 #17 January 9, 2004 Let's just let natural selection take it's course. Post the warnings and Post the good advice and then let whatever happens happen. What would be next, floation devices, asshole protectors from tree landings?? May we live long and die out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rfarris 2 #18 January 9, 2004 I voted "no"... Helmets, or any other safety gear is a personal choice. But I can see where from a politically correct standpoint, if it supported some kind of insurance requirement, or a lawyer's advice to avoid a law suit, you'd have to do what you have to do, and let those who want to comply have fun. Maybe an explanation why you'd even consider requiring helmets would clarify this issue more, for me anyway. Some of us newer jumpers may not be familiar with past proposed helmet laws at BASE events. Is it an insurance issue? Lawsuit thing? Just curious. I wear a helmet because there is always that chance I'd wish I had it on. Rod Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skinflicka 0 #19 January 10, 2004 QuoteThe arguement that lots of skydiving gear is used at Bridge Day is actually a wake up call, that use of skydiving gear should only be allowed if it is your first BASE jump, other than that, BASE gear should be required at Bridge Day. (That is, if anyone is making a return trip to NRGB for Bridge Day, they should have BASE specific gear. I'd say that the last thing a new jumper needs is to increase his chance of additional excitement by using skydiving gear which is more likely to provide exactly that. BASE gear for BASE. You wouldn't use a penguin as a tuxedo just cos they look similar. Just my .02 (as the Hydrocodone kicks in following this mornings root canal). Stay safe if not sane. Skin$kin. Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #20 January 10, 2004 to me this kind of relates to the "BASE and skydiving associations" post that we have been bitching about on the UK Board - if you start setting rules then where do these rules stop?? How can you allow people to go off the span with some shitty gear (skydiving gear) or even as one vid I watched someone going tard with a VX - but then turn around and say "best you wear a helmet" - to me that is both against what BASE means in the freedom it gives you and hypocritical in the fact that "anything goes" but please wear a protective hat!!! If you are looking to make BD safer then basically stop the skydivers looking for a fareground ride jump just so they can say "I am a BASE jumper" from jumping! - there are more issues attached to BD then whether head protection is needed.......... just my two broken bones needing pinning coz i thought a really high bridge would be easy and almost a skydive!! as you may have guessed I still have issues on the whole BD thing.............. We all spend time telling people - you must have the right gear, you must have the right experience, blah blah blah but then come BD and to me it seems that all the rules go out of the window and skydivers can lob of a fixed object without the ethics that so many of us try to drum into people.............. I think BD is hypocritical............ open for discussion......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #21 January 10, 2004 QuoteI think BD is hypocritical............ open for discussion......... I think Bridge Day is Bridge Day, and BASE jumping is BASE jumping, and while there are some similarities, and some overlap, they aren't really the same thing. Bridge Day has it's own history, and it's own spirit, which is quite distinct from BASE as a whole.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #22 January 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteI think BD is hypocritical............ open for discussion......... I think Bridge Day is Bridge Day, and BASE jumping is BASE jumping, and while there are some similarities, and some overlap, they aren't really the same thing. Bridge Day has it's own history, and it's own spirit, which is quite distinct from BASE as a whole. Good reply! - it aint BASE but I guess that some people once they do BD suddenly become "BASE jumpers"???? I understand the attraction (Im not into big boogie jumps at all) and that it opens the doors for some people - but in the end BD aint what BASE is about.......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #23 January 10, 2004 Strong words... When I started jumping at Bridge Day in '84 I didn't wear a helmet - and I used my skydiving gear... Ditto for the years after that I returned... Last year when I finally went back I wore a helmet (I often didn't wear helmets skydiving in the '80's and early '90's either, but now do on almost all jumps)... I must say next year I'll still wear a helmet, but I certainly think it felt better when I used to jump it without... So I think that it should be personal choice as to whether you wear a helmet or not... Likewise when I went back to Bridge Day last year I used my skydiving rig even though I had a base rig in the van. It wasn't the same rig I used to use but it was the same make and vintage. And I get awfully tired of hearing people say that you shouldn't be allowed to use skydiving gear off the bridge when, used properly, it's as safe as any other gear...If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #24 January 10, 2004 QuoteI get awfully tired of hearing people say that you shouldn't be allowed to use skydiving gear off the bridge when, used properly, it's as safe as any other gear... how exactly is it as safe as a single parachute system? I beg to differ.............. but please tell me I am wrong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #25 January 10, 2004 On an 876' object with no object strike potential and a 42" pc with appropriate bridle, you can put any canopy you like (ie BASE or accuracy, not pocketrocket) in there with as much or as little chance of anything going wrong as on a one-parachute system... Which system had risers release out West before landing? Which systems were other jumpers on the same object using when they went in? You configure or choose gear for the object you're doing, and on BD there is nothing wrong with skydiving gear properly configured.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
