base736 0 #1 March 10, 2004 (Also posted on the BASE Board) Could anybody with experience getting 3rd party liability insurance for a BASE demo, preferably (but not necessarily) with a North American company, please PM me. Thanks! jcooper@ucalgary.ca[email] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JaapSuter 0 #2 July 5, 2005 Bump. I am interested as well. Please PM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #3 July 5, 2005 Over 15 years ago we tried something like this. We thought demo jumps using BASE gear from 500-feet would be an exciting and novel air show act we could take on the road. The two things we had to get around were insurance and FAR 105, section 43. Section 43 is the one that states the gear must be a dual container system with an approved harness, and an approved reserve. In this case "approved" means TSO'd. We approached Section 43 by asking the FAA for a waiver. We believed we were on strong ground as waivers are granted to aerobatic pilots to perform their maneuvers right down to ground level if they can first prove they are competent to do so. We also showed them that using the type of gear mandated (basically a skydiving rig) would make these jumps more dangerous and not safer. I remember spending an hour with an inspector at the FISDO explaining the theory of the BASE single harness and container system. And I was excited when he agreed. The problem became the insurance. Tagging onto the USPA demo insurance program didn’t work as they (the insurance company) follow the USPA basic safety recommendations. I spoke to Bill Ottly at USPA about a waiver to the equipment and altitude BSRs and although he said it was a cool idea, waivers wouldn't be granted. He was (and rightly I suppose) worried about doing anything to jeopardize the USPA's ability to get such demo insurance which has always been tenuous at best. So, that's were we left it. We tried a few aviation insurance companies and while they were open to the idea it was the premiums born solely by us that wouldn't work. Think of an Otter screaming down the center line at 500-feet (or even lower) and one by one five BASE jumpers exit at show center. The crowd would crap their pants! Someday, maybe the ABP will be large enough and with enough "dues" paying members that this might work out . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnnyb 0 #4 July 5, 2005 QuoteThink of an Otter screaming down the center line at 500-feet (or even lower) and one by one five BASE jumpers exit at show center. The crowd would crap their pants! I recoment having a small peak at this one; http://headdown.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=100157 http://storage.headdown.net//ff2004/bidrag9.mov I guess skydiving gear can do what it's designed for ...know this is just a little off topic, but a way to show a "proof-of-concept" about exiting a plane at a low altitude. edited for direct link to .mov file. The films are shown in public, so it should be no problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pBASEtobe 0 #5 July 5, 2005 QuoteI recoment having a small peak at this one... Damn login required!!! I hate that! Edit to add: Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base736 0 #6 July 5, 2005 I ran right up the chain of command at Transport Canada (equivalent to the FAA) until I hit an inspector in Winnipeg. Nobody in TC feels they have any jurisdiction over fixed-object jumps. Same went for the local bylaw folks (who just wanted to know when/where this was going to happen, so they could watch) and the city police (who offered up their services in closing down the largest street downtown if we wanted that). It seems that permission from the building owner is about all that's required. Marketing folks are all over this kind of thing. The two biggest hurdles were insurance (which never panned out, though I certainly haven't been exhaustive in my search) and reluctance on the part of management. () <-- Because I don't already have enough parentheses in this post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base587 0 #7 July 5, 2005 Seventhreesix, have you talked to these guys?: http://www.aerialdimensions.ca/projects.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #8 July 5, 2005 QuoteThink of an Otter screaming down the center line at 500-feet (or even lower) and one by one five BASE jumpers exit at show center. *** I saw something 'similar' at a boat race in Illinois in the 70's...3 guys in a 182 at LESS than 500' into the lake before the race! Another weird thought... I was in Norway a month ago, Downtown Oslo there is a small Carnival like park near the harbor. As always, I was out walking around at 3am... they were performing maintainance on the 'reverse bungie' ride. I got to talking to the worker bees, and they were saying it could easily be set up to launch a BASE jumper up ...to 350-400 feet and keep the G load in the 3.5-4 G's range... It got me thinking... No aircraft needed...(powered or balloon)...no Feds. Somewhat 'portable' unlike a bridge, tower, or building...'take the show' on the road! Single event insurance for something like is available...ask Robbie Kinevel, and with a well structured liability waiver...shouldn't be out of reach. ....anyway, just a thought...gotta go~time for my meds! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #9 July 5, 2005 There's a yearly legal BASE event in Oslo, so I think that's not much of a stretch. Since he's been posting in the last couple days, I bet JohnnyB will read this...-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #10 July 5, 2005 Quoteit could easily be set up to launch a BASE jumper up ...to 350-400 feet and keep the G load in the 3.5-4 G's range... A guy from France already has this system and it was supposed to be tested this summer. I have some photos of the contraption (2 large cranes, slingshot style). It's WAY scary, but I'm sure they'll pull it off.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #11 July 5, 2005 how much would "you" be willing to pay for this if it proves somewhat safe and repeatable?Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #12 July 5, 2005 Quote(Also posted on the BASE Board) Could anybody with experience getting 3rd party liability insurance for a BASE demo, preferably (but not necessarily) with a North American company, please PM me. Thanks! jcooper@ucalgary.ca The Farmer's underwriters told my agent that my umbrella policy ($1M) covers me on parachute jumps where I'm at fault. He said that there were complications if I got blown off course; I'd argue that would be my fault too for not paying better attention to conditions but a city parks and recreation director got in my way before I looked into it furthur. The umbrella policy is about $200 a year. Might be something to look at if it's just you and you have auto insurance. The policy has exclusions for some general aviation problems; although I specifically asked about them the underwriters felt they didn't apply to skydiving. YMMV. Go Fast Sports got liability insurance two years in a row for their Colorado event; you might track down Troy Widgery. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #13 July 6, 2005 My Traveller's umbrella policy covers me for BASE jumps so long as they are not-for-profit. I specifically asked "what if I break a window to jump out of a building?" and was told that they'd cover the damage to the building.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #14 July 6, 2005 The Kockelman Brothers (John and Peter) are the fellows who design and build many of these rides. John made some BASE jumps in the early 90s after he let us jump from his bungee tower. He came to Bridge Day that year and made a couple of BASE jumps. He's also a skydiver and a good friend to our sport. They have a website here: http://www.gravityworks.com/ In the 80s we thought we have some success launching from a med-evil siege machine called a trebuchet www.trebuchet.com but the initial g-force at launch is too much to take. I was at a Fair here in San Diego last week and saw the "ejector seat" up close. It would take some modification to assure the cage doesn't swivel on the way up, but it would be totally doable and a wild ride. Tandems . . . ? NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #15 July 6, 2005 a med-evil siege machine called a trebuchet *** On one of those "You gotta see this" kind of shows, some guy decided to "Fling" his girlfriend....something I'm sure we ALL would like to do at one time or another. She was supposed to land in a huge net...but I guess the guy miss a few days of 4th grade math, because he over shot her past the net...at least he SAID it was an accident. Some friends and I made one in college to throw melons, varying the angle of the release hook changed the trajectory angle...MOST of the time. I would hate to be the guy that went 'out' instead of 'up'! ...In speaking with the guys working on the ride in Norway when I was there, they had already figured it out. Attach a stabilizer wing to the basket, like an airplane..with both vertical & horizontal fins on a weighted boom at the rear. Then either a manual release that would retract a spring loaded seat belt, or a gyro / 0-G unit that would retract the belt only under optimal conditions. (I'm sure you have an old, 'one of those' in a drawer on the boat someplace right?) Anyway...when they get it going...would you help me pack? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
