1st Base Canopy?

[dmkellett 0]

Just thinking about geting my first base rig and alredy fly a wingsuit so thought of getting the gargoyle from morpheus, I'm just about settled on this as a container but am unsure about the canopy. they do a package with the troll canopy but i'm after some advice on it's performance. I'll be learning in norway and then moving from the UK to Aus so how does the troll measure up to the low altitude jumps in AUS?
Cheers guys
Darren

[sammer 0]

I hope your profile is out of date. 41 jumps seems a little early to be flying wingsuits or BASE jumping.

[TomAiello 26]

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I hope your profile is out of date. 41 jumps seems a little early to be flying wingsuits or BASE jumping.

I'm assuming that's 41 BASE jumps. There are plenty of people on here who put the number of BASE jumps in the "jumps" category. Check out Slim's Profile, for example, and you'll see he hasn't included any of his skydives in his total jump numbers.

My personal preference would be to go with a Blackjack with the ZP foreskin.

However, you'll find that if you are going to be doing low stuff in Oz, you'll get a lot more help from locals if you're jumping a Flik, because they mostly have BR gear down under.

The MDV Troll is also a good canopy choice. Be sure to get the MDV's though, as an unvented Troll is going to be a very poor choice for Australian jumping.

If wingsuits are your thing, consider getting the WS Xtreme Gargoyle, as it converts to operate in the "standard" configuration, for non-wingsuit jumps. Be aware, though, that the last I heard, you couldn't get a WS sized for a canopy larger than 240, so that may not be the best choice for Aussie BASE unless you are very light.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[nicknitro71 0]

I'm in the same boat as you. I will do mainly wing jumps from big walls when in Europe. Low cliffs are not for me. Some antennas and bridges here and there.

I went for an ACE with the composite top skin. I will not take advantage of a vented canopy and being 90% of my deployments at terminal wing-suit velocities I think a canopy like the ACE is perfect. I ordered mine with the fine mesh slider too. Openings thus far have been great.

If you want to do both, low cliff and wing-suit maybe a vented like a Black Jack is your best buy unless you got cash to spare to get both

A black jack or any other vented canopy will give you much harder openings at terminal even with a fine mesh, keep that in mind.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[sum1sneaky 0]

The MERLIN looks like a pretty tremendous w/s container as well. You might ask a big wingsuiter like 416 what they think you should get started with.

[SabreDave 0]

Well, as a fairly new rig owner........
I have a Gargoyle (regular) and a Troll 290 MDV. The construction of the container is great!! Well built, well designed and it looks awesome.
As for the canopy, only done 3 jumps on it but I am happy so far for sure. Great flare and again the constuction looks totally solid. It is a 290 and I am 240 pounds. It landed great at 3600 feet ASL.

SabreDave

[treemonkey 0]

Just read the posts and also in the market for a new container. My sf.3 should be in soon and was wondering about the performance of WS specific rigs like the merlin or WS extreme for non-wing suit base jumps and low stuff. I've seen a lot of perigee pro's around lately and just looking for some info from those using them, thanks

edit: site naming ~TA

[treemonkey 0]

Sorry, actually looking for info about the WS specific rigs, and the pro's and con's to the different pin rigs out there, thanks

[wzettler 0]

I asked about the WSXtreme a little while ago and Base733 was kind enough to give a couple of responses in the following thread...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=906142#906142

I think when Jesus said "love your enemy" he probably meant don't kill them.

[motherhucker 0]

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ZP foreskin.

you're a sick bastard Tom.

I've seen some wicked body modifications in the past--but this takes the cake. Did it take awhile to heal?

mh

[DaveO 0]

I still love my good old and proven FOX canopies!

"When it comes to BASE, I'll never give advice, only my opinion"

[TomAiello 26]

Quote

If wingsuits are your thing, consider getting the WS Xtreme Gargoyle, as it converts to operate in the "standard" configuration, for non-wingsuit jumps. Be aware, though, that the last I heard, you couldn't get a WS sized for a canopy larger than 240, so that may not be the best choice for Aussie BASE unless you are very light.

Some more info about the WS Xtreme that I've just gotten from Morpheus:

• ws x-treme can be manufactured for up to a Troll or BR canopy 265 or 266, and a CR/Asylum canopy up to a 280.

• It can also be purchased with 3-rings if a person so chooses and in Cordura for people who will be doing multiple types of jumps with it.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[ManBird 0]

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• ws x-treme can be manufactured for up to a Troll or BR canopy 265 or 266, and a CR/Asylum canopy up to a 280.

I'm considering a Flik Vtec 265 (I weigh 150 to 165, depending on time of year). Money is a factor. I want a H/C for our lo(w)cal stuff, but would like to travel to do some WS BASE in the future. I'd rather just buy a second H/C that fits my canopy than buy a second canopy. Is this canopy not appropriate for wingsuit flights? Even with a small mesh slider? It sounds like this may be the case if this canopy is pushing the size limit of the container... and I'm a pretty average build.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[BASE813 0]

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ws x-treme can be manufactured for up to a Troll or BR canopy 265 or 266, and a CR/Asylum canopy up to a 280.

with the troll being measured differently so thus a 265 is more like a 280 then how does this work? Why would a troll 265 (re 280) fit and a BR280ish not? but a CR/AD 280 will?

just interested in how these different canopy measurements work out when quoting these sorts of figures.

[crwper 7]

I have also been interested in the WS Extreme... At this point the only thing that makes me wary of having this as my only rig is that the bottom of the container goes significantly past the harness attachment. I would think that on aerial jumps in particular, this would provide a convenient place for the bridle to get hung up. Not sure if this is a major factor, since I haven't done aerials yet, but I'd like to hear from anyone who has.

Also, I talked to Robert and he mentioned that he could move the laterals down so that they met at the corner of the container. However, it looks like this would cause the rig to fit my Crossbow poorly.

Alas, I'm having a hard time finding a pin rig that I'd really like to buy. The Gargoyle is close, but I'm not too keen on how they've contoured the fabric in the top corners (the rounded end of the side panels give it a bit of a box shape, whereas other manufacturers have tapered the side panels down to smooth the corner).

Michael

[Base733 0]

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I would think that on aerial jumps in particular, this would provide a convenient place for the bridle to get hung up. Not sure if this is a major factor, since I haven't done aerials yet, but I'd like to hear from anyone who has.

Just fyi- I've done singles, doubles and triple gainers and fronts with the WS Extreme and have not had any problems.

[TomAiello 26]

Quote

I'm considering a Flik Vtec 265 (I weigh 150 to 165, depending on time of year). Money is a factor. I want a H/C for our lo(w)cal stuff, but would like to travel to do some WS BASE in the future. I'd rather just buy a second H/C that fits my canopy than buy a second canopy. Is this canopy not appropriate for wingsuit flights? Even with a small mesh slider? It sounds like this may be the case if this canopy is pushing the size limit of the container... and I'm a pretty average build.

My best advice would be to get the 266 for your first jumps, and put it in a Soft Cock for the local stuff.

Then, get a WS Xtreme for the wingsuit stuff.

You're an advanced enough wingsuit pilot that you probably ought to consider buying a smaller WS Xtreme, and buying/begging/borrowing/stealing a smaller canopy for your wingsuit jumps. If that's not an option, get Morpheus to build you a WS Xtreme in the big size and go with that.

With a small mesh slider, you'll be fine with the Flik Vtec at wingsuit terminal, in my opinion.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

Quote

with the troll being measured differently so thus a 265 is more like a 280 then how does this work? Why would a troll 265 (re 280) fit and a BR280ish not? but a CR/AD 280 will?

just interested in how these different canopy measurements work out when quoting these sorts of figures.

It's not the measurements, it's the build of the canopy.

The FOX, in particular is very beefy, and can take tons of abuse, so it has a larger pack volume at a given size. The CR canopies tend to have smaller pack volumes. The differences on the current generation of canopies (Flik and Ace/BJ) are not nearly as pronounced as on the last generation (FOX/Mojo) since BR eased down on the reinforcements to reduce pack volume on the Flik, and CR beefed the Ace up a bit more than the Mojo.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[ManBird 0]

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put it in a Soft Cock for the local stuff.

You're all over it. 'Twas the plan.

Thanks for the tips. I'm think that by the time I get across the pond, I might have put enough together for the trip, a container, and a new canopy. I really like BR, and I really like the Flik Vtec. Maybe I should just get a second, slider-up/terminal rig this summer. I'd get some use out of it... just not much.

Last question then -- smaller canopy -- how small? Looks as though the WS Extreme is happy with a 200 or 220. I imagine I'd be taking something like that on many skydives in a huge, borrowed rig before being required to touch down between rocks.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[RayLosli 11]

Maybe I should just get a second, slider-up/terminal rig this summer. I'd get some use out of it... just not much
.......................................................................................................

*Just a quick note*
Steve did a quick retrain and did a BASE jump the other night.
The first in Two & half years and his first Antenna.
Slider Down
And he is correct !!!
He will not get much use out of a slider up Rig.
He climbs as slow as my Grandmother.
and she is dead.
400 ft. in 45 Minutes
It's 900 ft. to the top.

sorry dude could not resist.

[Faber 0]

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400 ft. in 45 Minutes

you said Steve you dont mean mac??

Ohh Steve welcome to the lazy club..(im one of them,even through i climb 400ft in 25mins he he..)

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[redfox 0]

If you use a bigger Canopy, you may also look for the Vertex-2 from BR.

I use the Vertex-2 with Dynamic Corners with my FOX 285 and the BirdMan GTi (SF3 soon)

Works great for me, and I am pretty happy with this stuff.

Basic Research has the Vertex-2 not yet on their Website, but you should ask Karen about.

Cordially,

Herwig

[Joris 0]

Have you considered the Atmosphere and/or the Hacker from ParAAvis?

see: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=869146;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;guest=5215854

or: www.paraavis.com

Joris.

[ManBird 0]

Quote

Maybe I should just get a second, slider-up/terminal rig this summer. I'd get some use out of it... just not much
.......................................................................................................

*Just a quick note*
Steve did a quick retrain and did a BASE jump the other night.
The first in Two & half years and his first Antenna.
Slider Down
And he is correct !!!
He will not get much use out of a slider up Rig.
He climbs as slow as my Grandmother.
and she is dead.
400 ft. in 45 Minutes
It's 900 ft. to the top.

sorry dude could not resist.

Not only was I slow, but I bitched and moaned about it the whole time. I'm so out of shape. I need better technique. I'd have it for like twenty rungs, and then I'd start thinking about those ducks by the pool. They swim in this puddle right next to the pool, and I'm like, "Dude! There's a POOL right there! Why did you go for the puddle?".

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[dmkellett 0]

thanks for all the information.

my profile is out of date i have about 500 skydives but no base jumps yet. I weigh 165 lbs so was thinking of getting a 240. im going to do the 1st jump course in norway this summer so was after inforamation on a good canopy. i am going to get the gargoyle as a container so in the future i can jump my wingsuits. i really like the idea of the vents on the new generation of canopies but was worried about the openings on the terminal jumps in norway.

i will be moving to Aus in a few months and my understanding is most of the jumps there are low altitude? so i'd like to know which canopy would be good for both terminal and low jumps. I am considering the blackjack at the moment or the troll.

cheers

Darren