leroydb 0 #1 August 5, 2004 not sure if its appropriate... if not tome delete it but saw this on ebay... 99k for a 300 ft freestander http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5712415339 even comes with landLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brodes 0 #2 August 5, 2004 haha thats awesome Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zennie 0 #3 August 5, 2004 QuoteSo if you owned it and the land would it be totally legal to jump from? Yep. Too bad it's in Mississippi. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base428 1 #4 August 5, 2004 I've got a local tower just like this one (judging from their pics) and it's well suited for BASE. You can actually launch from one the four repeaters at the top, if they're not hot. Get your checkbooks out, kiddies.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites leroydb 0 #5 August 5, 2004 man oh man.... anybody wana put some money together to have a dedicated site? you could buy it, take the tower down, move it to where you want, then sell the land. cough cough, I suggest TEXAS or NC or ORegonLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #6 August 5, 2004 How much would it cost to pour an appropriate pad for a freestander? I know the anchors for a guyed tower are _expensive_, and you (obviously) can't move them with the tower.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base428 1 #7 August 5, 2004 Dismantling, moving, and reassembling a tower is going to be very expensive (more than the cost of the tower itself). There have been plenty of towers that were offered "Free" to anyone who would tear it down and haul it away, but it still proved too expensive.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zennie 0 #8 August 5, 2004 QuoteI know the anchors for a guyed tower are _expensive_, and you (obviously) can't move them with the tower. There's a plot of land for sale here in TX that a bunch of us have been interested in for some time. It has the anchors already in place... just no tower. We've been trying to find a way to get an old dismantled tower on the cheap and get it assembled for a while now. As with most things, money is the big sticking point. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base570 1 #9 August 5, 2004 There have been many towers for sale on Ebay. One guy has them already disassembled and ready for transport. Recently he had a 475' freestander ready to go for $85,000. I'll have to agree with 428 that these are nice jumping platforms, we have more than a few around my area that are sweet to flik from. Oh, the guy I've been watching is in TX....he also at one time had a 700-800 footer with an elevator that no one bid on... maybe he still has it?? I'm ready to pitch in my share 570 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KidWicked 0 #10 August 5, 2004 QuoteThere have been many towers for sale on Ebay. One guy has them already disassembled and ready for transport. Recently he had a 475' freestander ready to go for $85,000. I'll have to agree with 428 that these are nice jumping platforms, we have more than a few around my area that are sweet to flik from. Oh, the guy I've been watching is in TX....he also at one time had a 700-800 footer with an elevator that no one bid on... maybe he still has it?? I'm ready to pitch in my share 570 Assuming that the venture had to have a commercial element to support the investment, is such a business even vaguely economically viable? i.e. are there enough jumpers (and prospective jumpers) to recoup the investment?Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #11 August 5, 2004 QuoteAssuming that the venture had to have a commercial element to support the investment, is such a business even vaguely economically viable? i.e. are there enough jumpers (and prospective jumpers) to recoup the investment? Maybe. Maybe not. I think you'd want to also rent space on the tower to "normal" users. Things like microwave relay dishes that are directional don't present any significant health hazard to jumpers on the tower.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites leroydb 0 #12 August 5, 2004 800 W/elevator? now that would rock. Though even if you had a tower without one, you could jimi a getto elevator pretty easy. a wench with a loooooooong cable and a couple pulleys...Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites leroydb 0 #13 August 5, 2004 only thing would be to win the lottery or find some very open investors....Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggersam 1 #14 August 5, 2004 I shared this thought with someone a few months back and I guess now isn't a bad time to bring it up. Keep in mind that I haven't thought this through or researched it more than what I'm putting down here: You buy enough land to support the use of a 2000' tower somewhere in the middle of nowhere and get FAA approval for a 2000' tower in that location. Rather than try to throw a LOT of money at a 2000' tower up front, you just purchase and erect the first 500' of a tower that is engineered to go to 2000'. Install an elevator and a "donut" at 500' and you're in operation. Like Tom suggested, lease some tower space to some "jumper-friendly" communication equipment. Since you're not going fly too far from a 500' tower, you don't need ALL that land initially, so you lease part of it out for crops or something on an annual renewal basis. I don't know what you'd charge for lifts to 500', but we're starting slow here.. As revenue begins being generated, you purchase and erect an additional 500', add a "donut" at the 1000' level and extend the elevator up to that height. Consider cutting back how much land you lease out the following year. Interest from communication companies is likely to increase as the tower gets higher, if the location is right.. Continue "growing" the tower to 2000' as revenue allows. It would take several years and would surely cost more than a 2000' tower would cost up-front, but you're splitting the cost up over many years. And, if at some time you decide that you can't get enough revenue to grow above a certain level, you stay where you're or sell it as-is. A tower engineered, surveyed and FAA-approved to go to 2000' might be really appealing to some TV and radio stations - much more so than the smaller towers being discussed in this thread.. I know towers exist with "high-speed" elevators that do about 200' per minute and some elevators have dual cars - one on top of the other. That can significantly affect the number of people you can get up and off the thing. I've never seen one, but I don't see why you couldn't have the tower engineered for more than 1 elevator. Just some thoughts/dreams ... Mark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base311 0 #15 August 5, 2004 "donut" = sheave Hope all is well with you... towerpro keepin' ya busy?? Gardner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydvr18 0 #16 August 5, 2004 "Too bad it's in Mississippi." No way, that's not too bad at all...I live in Mississippi, an hour from Vicksburg!!!! And Tom, you can back me up here...Mississippi is short of objects!! Plenty of A's, but many are either in the middle of a forest, too low (for me, anyway), tightly secured, or the elevator won't work. Tom, how many states did we cover in a week looking for objects? Three?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FIREFLYR 0 #17 August 5, 2004 Maby they'll let you take it for a testdrive?"One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest" "There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base698 14 #18 August 5, 2004 I found a ton of objects just near MS when I lived there last summer. Can't be too short of objects :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #19 August 5, 2004 We were looking for an object that met a _very_ specific criteria. And it was four states (MS, LS, AL, FL) as I recall.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrogNog 1 #20 August 5, 2004 The business case problem I see with any of this is suing. Just one person suing after injury or worse could cost more than the tower, land, and everything else connected to either. And while it's obviously expensive if someone sues the owner and wins, it's still expensive if someone sues the owner and loses. The owner has to pay the lawyer fees no matter what. I don't think there would be any way to get around this. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zennie 0 #21 August 5, 2004 QuoteThe business case problem I see with any of this is suing. You can get around this by incorporating. Every person who wants to jump must buy a share(s) into the corporation. You can't sue yourself. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #22 August 5, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe business case problem I see with any of this is suing. You can get around this by incorporating. Every person who wants to jump must buy a share(s) into the corporation. You can't sue yourself. Um, by that logic, shareholders couldn't sue a compay they were shareholders of. Didn't the shareholders sue Enron? What about the "corporate mismanagement" suits brought by shareholders? In other words--are you sure? edit to add: Google search for "shareholder lawsuit" turns up a lot of cases of shareholder's suing companies they own shares in.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zennie 0 #23 August 5, 2004 Good point. You can always fall back on assumption of risk. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #24 August 5, 2004 I think that also carefully placing the tower in a state with appropriate legal rules would be important. For example, although it might do good business there, I'd _never_ want to put it in California. Idaho, on the other hand...-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BoondockSaint 0 #25 August 5, 2004 Well the people from enron were stealing from the shareholders and committing felonies. The point with making this site a corporation is they can only sue the corporation not you. They can only go after the enron guys because they themselves stole the money first. Yeah they can sue the site and force it into bankruptcy and liquidate all its assets but they can never touch your own personal assets. The corporation is its own legal entity. Sure someone could jump and break his leg and sue (for lack of a better word) "A Site" but the point is he cant sue tom or anyone else that may have started it. Say you guys all get some kind of a loan for a million dollars - u still owe 999,999 and someone sues you. They wouldnt get shit and wouldnt even have an incentive to sue you because any personal injury lawyer that gets paid only if you win would see this and realize he wouldnt get anything. Primary debt holders always get paid first. Sounds like a great idea I think. Limited liability to all parties involved. It sucks u could lose the site but at least you couldnt get your own ass fried. Can't wait to start base jumping. Johnny Utah's class next spring is on my agenda. I should have 150 skydives by then since I am now jumping my ass off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 0
Zennie 0 #3 August 5, 2004 QuoteSo if you owned it and the land would it be totally legal to jump from? Yep. Too bad it's in Mississippi. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #4 August 5, 2004 I've got a local tower just like this one (judging from their pics) and it's well suited for BASE. You can actually launch from one the four repeaters at the top, if they're not hot. Get your checkbooks out, kiddies.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #5 August 5, 2004 man oh man.... anybody wana put some money together to have a dedicated site? you could buy it, take the tower down, move it to where you want, then sell the land. cough cough, I suggest TEXAS or NC or ORegonLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #6 August 5, 2004 How much would it cost to pour an appropriate pad for a freestander? I know the anchors for a guyed tower are _expensive_, and you (obviously) can't move them with the tower.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #7 August 5, 2004 Dismantling, moving, and reassembling a tower is going to be very expensive (more than the cost of the tower itself). There have been plenty of towers that were offered "Free" to anyone who would tear it down and haul it away, but it still proved too expensive.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #8 August 5, 2004 QuoteI know the anchors for a guyed tower are _expensive_, and you (obviously) can't move them with the tower. There's a plot of land for sale here in TX that a bunch of us have been interested in for some time. It has the anchors already in place... just no tower. We've been trying to find a way to get an old dismantled tower on the cheap and get it assembled for a while now. As with most things, money is the big sticking point. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base570 1 #9 August 5, 2004 There have been many towers for sale on Ebay. One guy has them already disassembled and ready for transport. Recently he had a 475' freestander ready to go for $85,000. I'll have to agree with 428 that these are nice jumping platforms, we have more than a few around my area that are sweet to flik from. Oh, the guy I've been watching is in TX....he also at one time had a 700-800 footer with an elevator that no one bid on... maybe he still has it?? I'm ready to pitch in my share 570 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KidWicked 0 #10 August 5, 2004 QuoteThere have been many towers for sale on Ebay. One guy has them already disassembled and ready for transport. Recently he had a 475' freestander ready to go for $85,000. I'll have to agree with 428 that these are nice jumping platforms, we have more than a few around my area that are sweet to flik from. Oh, the guy I've been watching is in TX....he also at one time had a 700-800 footer with an elevator that no one bid on... maybe he still has it?? I'm ready to pitch in my share 570 Assuming that the venture had to have a commercial element to support the investment, is such a business even vaguely economically viable? i.e. are there enough jumpers (and prospective jumpers) to recoup the investment?Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #11 August 5, 2004 QuoteAssuming that the venture had to have a commercial element to support the investment, is such a business even vaguely economically viable? i.e. are there enough jumpers (and prospective jumpers) to recoup the investment? Maybe. Maybe not. I think you'd want to also rent space on the tower to "normal" users. Things like microwave relay dishes that are directional don't present any significant health hazard to jumpers on the tower.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #12 August 5, 2004 800 W/elevator? now that would rock. Though even if you had a tower without one, you could jimi a getto elevator pretty easy. a wench with a loooooooong cable and a couple pulleys...Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #13 August 5, 2004 only thing would be to win the lottery or find some very open investors....Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggersam 1 #14 August 5, 2004 I shared this thought with someone a few months back and I guess now isn't a bad time to bring it up. Keep in mind that I haven't thought this through or researched it more than what I'm putting down here: You buy enough land to support the use of a 2000' tower somewhere in the middle of nowhere and get FAA approval for a 2000' tower in that location. Rather than try to throw a LOT of money at a 2000' tower up front, you just purchase and erect the first 500' of a tower that is engineered to go to 2000'. Install an elevator and a "donut" at 500' and you're in operation. Like Tom suggested, lease some tower space to some "jumper-friendly" communication equipment. Since you're not going fly too far from a 500' tower, you don't need ALL that land initially, so you lease part of it out for crops or something on an annual renewal basis. I don't know what you'd charge for lifts to 500', but we're starting slow here.. As revenue begins being generated, you purchase and erect an additional 500', add a "donut" at the 1000' level and extend the elevator up to that height. Consider cutting back how much land you lease out the following year. Interest from communication companies is likely to increase as the tower gets higher, if the location is right.. Continue "growing" the tower to 2000' as revenue allows. It would take several years and would surely cost more than a 2000' tower would cost up-front, but you're splitting the cost up over many years. And, if at some time you decide that you can't get enough revenue to grow above a certain level, you stay where you're or sell it as-is. A tower engineered, surveyed and FAA-approved to go to 2000' might be really appealing to some TV and radio stations - much more so than the smaller towers being discussed in this thread.. I know towers exist with "high-speed" elevators that do about 200' per minute and some elevators have dual cars - one on top of the other. That can significantly affect the number of people you can get up and off the thing. I've never seen one, but I don't see why you couldn't have the tower engineered for more than 1 elevator. Just some thoughts/dreams ... Mark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base311 0 #15 August 5, 2004 "donut" = sheave Hope all is well with you... towerpro keepin' ya busy?? Gardner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydvr18 0 #16 August 5, 2004 "Too bad it's in Mississippi." No way, that's not too bad at all...I live in Mississippi, an hour from Vicksburg!!!! And Tom, you can back me up here...Mississippi is short of objects!! Plenty of A's, but many are either in the middle of a forest, too low (for me, anyway), tightly secured, or the elevator won't work. Tom, how many states did we cover in a week looking for objects? Three?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FIREFLYR 0 #17 August 5, 2004 Maby they'll let you take it for a testdrive?"One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest" "There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base698 14 #18 August 5, 2004 I found a ton of objects just near MS when I lived there last summer. Can't be too short of objects :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #19 August 5, 2004 We were looking for an object that met a _very_ specific criteria. And it was four states (MS, LS, AL, FL) as I recall.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #20 August 5, 2004 The business case problem I see with any of this is suing. Just one person suing after injury or worse could cost more than the tower, land, and everything else connected to either. And while it's obviously expensive if someone sues the owner and wins, it's still expensive if someone sues the owner and loses. The owner has to pay the lawyer fees no matter what. I don't think there would be any way to get around this. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #21 August 5, 2004 QuoteThe business case problem I see with any of this is suing. You can get around this by incorporating. Every person who wants to jump must buy a share(s) into the corporation. You can't sue yourself. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #22 August 5, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe business case problem I see with any of this is suing. You can get around this by incorporating. Every person who wants to jump must buy a share(s) into the corporation. You can't sue yourself. Um, by that logic, shareholders couldn't sue a compay they were shareholders of. Didn't the shareholders sue Enron? What about the "corporate mismanagement" suits brought by shareholders? In other words--are you sure? edit to add: Google search for "shareholder lawsuit" turns up a lot of cases of shareholder's suing companies they own shares in.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #23 August 5, 2004 Good point. You can always fall back on assumption of risk. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #24 August 5, 2004 I think that also carefully placing the tower in a state with appropriate legal rules would be important. For example, although it might do good business there, I'd _never_ want to put it in California. Idaho, on the other hand...-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoondockSaint 0 #25 August 5, 2004 Well the people from enron were stealing from the shareholders and committing felonies. The point with making this site a corporation is they can only sue the corporation not you. They can only go after the enron guys because they themselves stole the money first. Yeah they can sue the site and force it into bankruptcy and liquidate all its assets but they can never touch your own personal assets. The corporation is its own legal entity. Sure someone could jump and break his leg and sue (for lack of a better word) "A Site" but the point is he cant sue tom or anyone else that may have started it. Say you guys all get some kind of a loan for a million dollars - u still owe 999,999 and someone sues you. They wouldnt get shit and wouldnt even have an incentive to sue you because any personal injury lawyer that gets paid only if you win would see this and realize he wouldnt get anything. Primary debt holders always get paid first. Sounds like a great idea I think. Limited liability to all parties involved. It sucks u could lose the site but at least you couldnt get your own ass fried. Can't wait to start base jumping. Johnny Utah's class next spring is on my agenda. I should have 150 skydives by then since I am now jumping my ass off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
