base428 1 #1 August 12, 2004 After chatting with fairly experienced jumpers recently, I found that there are many PCA methods in use today (some good, some bad). There seems to be little talk on this forum about the most acceptable method and I feel this subject has been ignored for quite some time. I'm not saying my method is the best, but it was taught to me by some of the old schoolers in the early 90's and it has never let me down. All you have to do is S-fold the bridle in your hand so that the bridle goes in, and out, of the bottom of your hand. By squeezing the S-folds as tight as possible and not letting go, the jumper will have peeled his/her velcro and achieved line stretch before the S-folds are pulled out of your hand. The PC is held very softly in your left hand (using two fingers). In some cases, a glove for your right hand (bridle) is advised, but not required. Many of you probably hold the PC in order to extract the shrivel flap and canopy on a PCA. This is dangerous for the jumper, as it can damage the PC and possibly promote early PC release and subsequent low-altitude freefalls. I'm interested in what methods other jumpers are using, and if there is a method that should be singled out as the most acceptable. Pics are attached.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggersam 1 #2 August 12, 2004 Quotethe jumper will have peeled his/her velcro and achieved line stretch before the S-folds are pulled out of your hand [.....] Many of you probably hold the PC in order to extract the shrivel flap and canopy on a PCA I have PCA'd several people and have used the latter method on each (Hookitt, being the most recent). Each have had very positive remarks on their recall of the jump. I certainly had the same on Hookitt's PCA of myself (I believe he used the same method as I on him). The feeling of a 9' bridle "freefall" can only be exceeded by a non-PCA. My lowest PCA is now 210'... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RayLosli 11 #3 August 12, 2004 I did not know there was any other way to PCA a person than Bridal in lead hand and Pilot Chute in your other hand held a little higher, so not to drag off edge or catch anything. tell me more.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PerFlare 0 #4 August 12, 2004 I am no expert on PCA's but I do it like you show on the pictures. I have seen some, at least for me, strange ways to PC assist ... I rarely do assisted jumps but when I do I make sure to tell the person holding my bridle and PC to do it as you describe. PerFlare Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #5 August 12, 2004 One of the reasons I posted this is because my experienced jumper friend was holding the PC at the handle while peforming PCA's. I told him his method is, in my opinion, dangerous because the forces are transmitted through the small center cord in the PC. I've also seen several jumpers with torn/missing handles because the person doing the PCA held onto the handle too long and it ripped. PCA's should only utilize the bridle for extraction, not the pilot chute.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2pac 6 #6 August 12, 2004 DOes it make any difference if the bridle come in and out on the upper side of the hand, except the bridle might hit you if you hold it to high?!www.slobodanpad.hr www.skydiveadria.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #7 August 12, 2004 i have seen PCA's where a thumb / hand could be ripped off from the way the PC is held.......... be careful people............. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #8 August 12, 2004 The important thing is that the bridle comes in and out of the same end, so it shouldn't make a difference if you tilt your hand slightly and the bridle comes out of the top. QuoteDoes it make any difference if the bridle come in and out on the upper side of the hand(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #9 August 12, 2004 I was taught to lightly hold the s-folds in the left hand and to firmly hold the pc, folded in half, in the right hand. I haven't actually tried it yet but the person in question told me they'd developed/converted to this method after having their forearm broken when it was pulled down on to railing using a different method. I can see the logic in the method you're suggesting though. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #10 August 12, 2004 Quote holding the PC at the handle while peforming PCA's how small PC´s do you use for PCA? i wont recomend smaller than 45´ just as on SL jumps..Reasson,just in case it might be the diff between broken bones and the loss of a life...in case somthing went wrong(saying this as i never saw a 45-46´whith a handel) By the way Jason,on the pic theres used 3 fingers Peter you forgot the pics(im not home so i cant reach you sorry) Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #11 August 12, 2004 Jason, Can you comment on the technique explained in this thread, and described: QuoteFrom my experience through the 12 years I've been BASE jumping, I've noticed that the harder one holds on to the PC during a PCA, the faster the opening. It seems like this experienced instructor is saying exactly the opposite of what you are--that he believes you ought to hold the PC has tightly as possible.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #12 August 12, 2004 I have just posted some photos of a PC damaged during a PCA style jump. We are guessing that the damage resulted from overtight grip (I was the PC holder). Note, however, that the freefall prior to PC extraction was very long (approximately 100 feet) which would have greatly increased the force on the PC. Also note, please don't use a PC repaired in this fashion for any jump where heading is important. The top of the PC is obviously assymetric after the repairs. Photos of the PC can be found here. Unfortunately, TM repaired it before I had a chance to take pictures of the damage. I'll have to try to damage it again so we can get some more photos.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #13 August 12, 2004 Perhaps I didn't explain my method in enough detail. I hold the S-folded bridle as tight as possible until the canopy is extracted and line stretch essentially pulls the S-folds out of your hand. The person doing a PCA would not even really have to know when the jumper actually left the object, as all he has to do is hold onto the S-folded bridle as tight as possible until it's yanked from his hand. This method also prevents PCA'ers from accidentally releasing the bridle and/or PC too early and sending the jumper into freefall. I not sure what Johnny holds onto during a PCA, but if the PC is taking the brunt of the force, then that's dangerous and it can damage your equipment. Why hold onto a bunch of F111, ZP, or mesh when you can hold onto the bridle and let it take the impact force? Do you think the cord running from the apex (top) to bottom of a PC is stronger than a bridle? What if the PC rips or the inner cord breaks prematurely? You may want to ask Johnny, but I believe his thread is trying to explain how to get an open canopy a little faster by holding onto the PC harder (in my case, holding onto the bridle). If Johnny holds onto the PC, then as an experienced jumper of 12 years myself, I'd say he's endangering the jumper. PS. Johnny is one of my best friends, by the way!(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #14 August 12, 2004 Not advocating one system over the other, since I've never PCA'd anyone, but one other thing that riggersam told me was that he held the PC with the arm straight and outstretched. This allowed him to maintain a fairly firm grip on the PC without over-doing it... since you can't hold a tremendous amount of weight with that little leverage. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabre210 0 #15 August 12, 2004 Hi Jason Hope all is well. Leg is healing well since Norway but still not jumping yet. Maybe another few weeks. Interesting thread. Incidentally, when you static line, where do you tie the breakcord to, the bridle attachment loop of the PC or the bridle itself, as the issues you raise regarding loading forces during PCA apply here too. ian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #16 August 12, 2004 That's funny as hell quite frankly - I would never let anyone pca me if they were using a methodology where their thumbs or hands could be ripped off. PCAing is nothing to sneeze at. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jalisco 0 #17 August 12, 2004 Another option which my mentors seem to use (if I'm not mistaken -- which I certainly have been before) might be to firmly hold a bight of the end of the bridle right next to the pilot chute, allowing the pilot chute to hang from the bridle attachment below your dominant hand. Then, you can hold several s-folds of the bridle loosely in the other hand (or rubber-band them loosely with an ordinary thin rubber band) so they can play out without entanglement. This, it would seem to me, could have pros and cons. The main thing is that, since you're getting full bridle extension, your deployment is a little lower. For really low objects this might be a negative. Barring this consideration, however, getting full bridle extension prior to deployment seems like a good thing on anything not significantly and sharply overhung, since (a) you'll be that much further from the object, (b) your canopy will be that much further from the object, and (c) your lines will be that much closer to vertical on deployment, reducing the amount of possible correction/ocillation that might happen after deployment. Does this make sense? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pringles 0 #18 August 12, 2004 here is a post from march of 2003http://dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=410723;#410723 I pretty much use the same method as jason. At the end of my discription I mention that I let the pc get jerked out of my hand. Maybe I should have said pulled instead of jerked. I don't hold on to it with near the force as I do with the bridle. Matt Davies Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pringles 0 #19 August 12, 2004 The break cord is tied to the loop of the bridal. Matt Davies Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #20 August 12, 2004 I disagree with holding the cap or apex, lightly or otherwise. The s-folded-under-exiting-bridle is spot on. The reason why is that the assister can have a redundant system if one holds the meshed similar to the first step of a "Mushroom pack" and then folds the mesh over whereby both parts are under exiting the hand. This is the part that is reinforced to take the load and one can finish opening the sequence in case of unexpected snatch force (which it always is for first time assisters). In the fotos, If one gets the bridle jerked out of the hand before container opening. things are not so recoverable with a flismy 2 finger grip or a good grip on the PC apex. Think redundantcy. 2 chances for the assister to do the job instead of one. Take care, space Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #21 August 12, 2004 im whith Space here. sfold the bridal in one hand,which should be hold untill it gets pulled out,the PC in the other hand,grabbed in the top,in case the bridal goes too soon.,oh and min. a 45´PC Ian,always breakcord to the bridal,if you do it to the PC you could ruin your PC and Breakcord,which basickly would give you a bad day,the rest of the day Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuickDraw 0 #22 August 12, 2004 What lovely hands you have Jason. -- Hope you don't die. -- I'm fucking winning Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #23 August 12, 2004 I've been soaking them in Palmolive. Thanks for noticing QuoteWhat lovely hands you have Jason. (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #24 August 12, 2004 QuoteI've been soaking them in Palmolive. Thanks for noticing -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What lovely hands you have Jason. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ____ nice ring aswell however it looks like you have shorte legs than i thourght Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
460 0 #25 August 12, 2004 I don't think my future as a finger model will ever materialize. Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
