BASE/Wingsuit Setup questions.

[Spy38W 0]

I'm still a bit away from when I will be able to think about wingsuit BASE (probably more than a year), but was wondering a few things on setup/planning. I tried searching this forum, but didn't find anything, and BLiNC is being slow tonight.

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What is the minimum altitude (in your opinion) that a wingsuit jump would be practical (getting inflation/decent flight)

Slider up/down?

PC size?

Generally prefer a vented or unvented canopy, or does it vary on how low you wanna go?

Anything else I might be forgetting.
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From skydiving it seems that WS openings are inherently soft, but am interested to hear opinions.

TIA

--
Hook high, flare on time

[ManBird 0]

Haven't done it yet, but this is what I've been taught:

36" - 38" PC. Mesh slider up. Vents don't matter.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[TomAiello 26]

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What is the minimum altitude (in your opinion) that a wingsuit jump would be practical (getting inflation/decent flight)

Practical? 1000 ft. Fun? 1500 ft maybe. Perhaps a bit more.

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Slider up/down?

Up. For sure. Slider down at wingsuit terminal would be a life altering experience (possibly a life ending one). Remember, the opening doesn't "see" your downward speed, it "sees" your total speed (so vector of down and forward speeds).

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PC size?

38 or 36.

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Generally prefer a vented or unvented canopy, or does it vary on how low you wanna go?

It won't make much difference slider up.

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Anything else I might be forgetting.

Pin rig only.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[maretus 0]

Good answers already in this thread, but I'd like add my few cents from my very limited experience :

- Slider up for sure
- Get a nice underhung terminal wall for example for your first flight, it gives you time to take things easy and it gives you time to sort out the deployment.
- 38" / 36" PC
- Pinrig.
- Get loads of WS experience from airplane, it will help you once you get your suit flying. The initial flight and deployment will feel comfortable and you won't be pushing too many new things in one jump.
- Get yourself an experinced WS-basejumper to help you with your first flight, he will tell you everything you need to know from exit to deployment. When I was doing my first flight I found it very valuable indeed to have more experienced friends around to give me nice tips, even though I had 100+ wsflights out of an airplane at that time.
- Take it easy and have fun, it will be the experience of your life ! :)

http://www.ufufreefly.com

[pope 0]

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- Get a nice underhung terminal wall for example for your first flight, it gives you time to take things easy and it gives you time to sort out the deployment.

To clarify;
I haven't read this whole thread, but I believe this individual means OVERHUNG[/B].

that one little typo could get ugly.

[toni 0]

I would like to see that people (as already the case in skydiving) understand doing a couple of hundreds slider up jumps before doing ws is best (those questions would be answered by then).

- Any opinions on this?
- Shoud the same apply with these new powerful track-clothes?

[maretus 0]

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To clarify;
I haven't read this whole thread, but I believe this individual means OVERHUNG.

Sure thing I meant OVERHUNG. Shouldn't post before taking a nice big bowl of coffee in the morning...

http://www.ufufreefly.com

[TomAiello 26]

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Get a nice underhung terminal wall for example for your first flight, it gives you time to take things easy and it gives you time to sort out the deployment.

In my opinion, a terminal tower with an elevator is a better option for two reasons:

1) You get a tailwind to push you away from the object in the event of a problem under canopy.
2) You can ride the elevator back up to repeatedly practice your exit.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[NathanL100 0]

Regarding PCs what are people using??

With the S3 base pouch??

I use only F111 pcs for non-wingsuit base, but I was thinking that a vented 36 zp would be better with the S3 base pouch b/c its smaller so it'll pack in there easier and the zp will help it slide out easier.

Whats the consensus on this??

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2) You can ride the elevator back up to repeatedly practice your exit.

Too bad that vator is broken. Damns or maybe the local trolls broke it.

Base # 942
The race is long and in the end, its only with yourself.

[outrager 6]

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Regarding PCs what are people using??

I use only F111 pcs for non-wingsuit base, but I was thinking that a vented 36 zp would be better with the S3 base pouch b/c its smaller so it'll pack in there easier and the zp will help it slide out easier.

I only use ZP PC for wingsuit flights, usually unvented 38".

F111 takes longer to inflate and has a higher tendency to hesitate - unacceptable in a wingsuit situation where PC must reliably grab the air, while opening heading is of no concern at all. The reason F111 is used by some people on terminal BASE jumps is just that - because it takes longer to inflate and vents air, marginally improving heading perfomance

Speaking of which: for some reasons i still cannot rationally explain, my openings heading perfomance on wingsuit flights is much better then on regular freefalls.

I don't use S3 PC pouch (quite happy with a regular BOC), but a pouch shall not dictate a PC choice. If it does, change the pouch, not the PC!

bsbd!

Yuri.

[ManBird 0]

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I use only F111 pcs for non-wingsuit base, but I was thinking that a vented 36 zp would be better with the S3 base pouch b/c its smaller so it'll pack in there easier and the zp will help it slide out easier.

This is a very good point. The BASE PC pouch is NOT spandex, so there is less give for bulky PC pack jobs and "sticky" F-111 PCs. On a skydive, I had a bulky pack job on a 32" F-111 PC, and it resulted in an "impossipull". Went to reserve. ZP for sure and pack the PC very thin and consistent (no lumps anywhere).

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[VectorBoy 0]

Ok, here is another question along this train of thought. Deploy and stay collapsed or deploy and go back into flight?

[unclecharlie109 0]

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Ok, here is another question along this train of thought. Deploy and stay collapsed or deploy and go back into flight?

For me these are the same thing. You stop flying, deploy and create a large burble behind you that could cause PC hesitation.

BASE flights rarely allow you enough altitude to fall vertically for a significant time to gain a "normal" vertical velocity.

Comes down to personal choice. It works but I prefer deployment in full flight for BASE, IMO it is safer.

i.e. you keep flying, never collapse your leg wing, only closing your arm wings for the split second it takes to locate the PC.

Why?

-You don't lose precious altitude.
-I find openings full flight are satisfactory (on heading)
-By deploying in flight the airflow over your body stays fast & clean reducing the risk of PC hesitation.

Watching Robi fly is interesting, his one handed deployment is faster than a Tylar Durden. (balances with leg movement - try from the plane first!)

From the plane I do exactly the opposite!

Long flights,

J

[ManBird 0]

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Watching Robi fly is interesting, his one handed deployment is faster than a Tylar Durden. (balances with leg movement - try from the plane first!)

SUPER quick draw! On the BASE PC pouch, I've been doing something similar (one handed deployment). I rotate my hips to raise my right leg about 6 inches higher than my left and reach back with my right hand, then throw. It makes extracting the PC in that odd direction MUCH easier.

And like UC said, it saves altitude and improves heading performance (both somewhat dramatically). My Sabre2 took about 500' to open on a normal skydive -- maybe a little less on a BOC pitch with a wingsuit. Pitching in full flight had me under a skydiving canopy literally within 200' of pitch (from the BASE PC pouch). It was still essentially a 450' - 500' opening, but at a glide ratio of over 2:1, less than half of the opening distance happens vertically.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[maretus 0]

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In my opinion, a terminal tower with an elevator is a better option for two reasons:

1) You get a tailwind to push you away from the object in the event of a problem under canopy.
2) You can ride the elevator back up to repeatedly practice your exit.

That's an interesting opinion, I've always thought that a high terminal wall (like the popular big wall in southwestern Norway for example) would be an optimal place to make your first flights. There are to my limited knowledge towers with something like 550m-600m (2000ft) of height but that's about it, popular big wall in Norway for example from exit 6 (which is very nicely overhung) has something like 800m of altitude. When doing my first wingsuit base I really didn't feel like smoking it very low so I depolyed somewhere around ~250m. Now having done that from a tower with exit altitude of 550 meters it would have given me only 300 meters of altitude to sort out my flying (compared to that big wall where i had around 500m to play with). I really feel that that extra altitude played a important role of getting relaxed with my flying, getting plenty of flight time and getting ready to deployment. Another thing with towers is that you have guy wires around (I assume that terminal towers are all wired) so you have to be rock solid with your exitheading and the heading of your first ten seconds or so in flight. Your point about the tailwind and the fact that it pushes you away from the object is absolutely correct but if person in question has even some experience flying wingsuits out of an airplane he really should be able to get plenty of object separation from terminal wall (so the tailwind really isn't an issue anymore). I honestly believe (or what I was thinking with my first flight) that object separation (or the lack of it) is not the main issue when considering wsbase, but getting my exit in order and getting that suit flying. When getting a decent exit and getting that suit flying if one can't get enough separation (to deal with linetwists for example) I really think he shouldn't be BASEing that suit but learning to fly it out of an airplane. If one fucks up the exit, one is in deep shit regardless of the object. Some objects give you more margin of error but I feel that overhung cliffs (like that wall in Norway) are pretty good in that sense too. (At least when compared to terminal towers). Elevator of course would be really nice and I believe that you can get your exits worked out really nicely when not having to hike for 2 hours for another jump. But hey, you just can't have everything... :)

Just my (unexperienced) thoughts...

http://www.ufufreefly.com

[blair700 0]

FWIW,

1st WS BASE jump:
Exited from ~1700'AGL, nailed the exit, right into full flight mode, REALIZED MY DREAM, deployed on heading, high, ~500'.
2nd WS BASE jump:
Exit was just below 1800' AGL, 10 second flight, out over the trees, deployed around 700' and a nice long canopy ride back. I flubbed the exit, waffled a bit, then kicked it for a second or 2....felt really relxed but not satisfied with the flight

Prior to both flights I was able to make a 'simulation' jump without the suit, practicing the exit, flight modes, and deployments...all while scouting LZ's.

So, I'm unable to get to a terminal wall right now, but I DO believe that terminal towers can be IDEAL sites for first WS flights. I believe currency is the key, both on BASE jumps and WS skydives. A nice tailwind is comforting, and prior scouting of alternate outs a must.

My setup is a Gargoyle/ACE, with a 38" ZP internal handle, one with an AV and one without.

Thanks y'all
Blair

[leroydb 0]

did you get vid of the 2nd one? i wish the 1st vid would have turned out

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[blair700 0]

Nope, it was at night as well,
C-ya soon!
Blair

[leroydb 0]

need to take a cam with military grade night vision next time...

see ya

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[NathanL100 0]

From my experience skydiving I've found that the type of suit makes a difference in whether I pitch in full flight or with collapsed wings. With a classic II pitching in full flight in no big deal even with a short bridle, but with my S3 a long bridle and a large zp pc, pitching in full flight has given me some interesting openings with crazy line twists and hesitations.

Does anyone have any recommendations as to how I can be training on WS skydives for WS base? Are people sitting up as they deploy in base or just pitching out of full flight, or what? Help??

Base # 942
The race is long and in the end, its only with yourself.

[TomAiello 26]

Have you tried freepacking your skydiving canopy? That should give you a much better idea what to expect on a BASE opening. My experience has been that a very large percentage of my spins and twists came from the bag.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[NathanL100 0]

Thats a good point. Maybe I'll try that or better yet I'll find some pilot willing to let me do a bandit jump or two .

Base # 942
The race is long and in the end, its only with yourself.

[VectorBoy 0]

I have " freepacked" a lightning with a tailpocket. But that is just a bagless propack not the packjob I've seen used on BASE gear which looks more like a reserve packjob. Does it matter how the gear is freepacked for simulations out of the base environment?

[TomAiello 26]

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Does it matter how the gear is freepacked for simulations out of the base environment?

Not too much. The more you can simulate a BASE pack, the closer it's going to be. But by far the biggest difference is the bag, so using the same packjob you used for the Lightning is probably plenty close enough. If you have a mesh slider, that would be the other major component.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com