Antenna Guy Wires and Wind

[CrazyThomas 0]

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I've had a A/wire strike about three days ago, Dagger 240

Last time I checked, Vertigo only made a Dagger 244. Sizes are 222, 244, and 266. There may be one higher or lower than the two, but whatever.
Mojo's come in 220, 240 and 260.
Fox's come in 225, 245, and 265.
Dagger's however, have the odd sizes :222, 244, and 266.
But whatever, we're BASE jumpers, why pay attention to details.

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and this was the 2nd 180 I've had on this canopy and actually the same A.

Bad karma then. Get out while you can. That, or learn to pack better.
Thomas usually only does his "infamous" twistie tie pack jobs on spans.
Twistie ties will open, but not with the best heading.


Damn, I gotta go smoke another joint or something.
Thomas

[RayLosli 11]

I tell you what, 180's are weird and unpredictable.
I went through 300 jumps before my 1st, 180.

I have also had 2 in one week off the same Antenna / object.

It was not the pack job.

It was all me, My choices and conditions, I chose to jump in.

[BASE813 0]

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It was not the pack job.

I have always been of the belief that pack jobs are low down on the list for off heading problems:

Most of my off headings I can explain by the wind direction and body position; these are the 2 main reasons to me for having an off heading with a canopy packed to encourage an on heading opening.

Does anyone disagree with this?

Swoops: I dont mean to be disrespectful but your jump numbers mean fuck all. Never guage experience by jump numbers alone. Also your vengance experience means nothing in the BASE world. "does anyone have comments on 180s on a daggers" - well I have had one on my dagger (including many 120's 160's and alot over 90+) and it was sod all to do with my packing. There are many other aspects to off headings then just packing: PM me and I will let you know my thoughts on it.

Be cool

[Faber 0]

first off i dont want to flame you,but heres my concerns regarding your post...

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im rapidly approaching 150 which I know is not very many in this most dangerous sport but I have had many minor circumstances that could have ended fataly

so becours you see the sport as dangerus you acsept the fact that you might do stuff in the wrong way? thats a bad mistake...

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I currently fly a vengence 97 @ 2.0 and swooping barely past the peas at my local DZ. I have over 500 skydives which I also realize is not many but I have had people tell me I have better that average canopy control vs. jump #'s. BTW I am also a pilot, low hours but I could fly any skydiving aircraft if I cared to get the proper licences. I have had a passion for flight since I could walk and skydiving/BASE jumping has really come sort of natual to me.

can you sail a boat?? You cant use any of the above info...You gain experience by large 7cell canopies,thouse are the once that saves your life while BASEjumping.... That you can fly your 97 in a cool way through windblades wont help you when your landing your 7cell BASE canopy in a BAD LZ...

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I don't log skydives nor base jumps cause all that is is some number, it represents no skill and I think USPA should not grant licences based on jump #'s and the measly prerequisites it takes to get them, they should have to prove skill

I do some how agree whith you here,how ever a log is good the day you want to figure out if you have started some mishaps or even just need info on that pactcular jump.Oh and most often they are way fun to read

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After careful inspection of my canopy I only had 5 pressurized cells which is the only reason im walking/breathing/writing this reply today.

how could you see that afterwards?I would say only vitnesses,video or personal look under the canopy you could tell this,not after an inspection(unless your canopy is damegede i guess).
However i would tend to belive that you could survive but groken pretty bad under 3 cells(if the canopy hangs together)

Im only a 150jump wonder aswell,and the above is just my personal oppinion.I however would agree whith you strongly to get hold of a vented canopy while jumping low stuff.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 26]

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Most of my off headings I can explain by the wind direction and body position; these are the 2 main reasons to me for having an off heading with a canopy packed to encourage an on heading opening.

Does anyone disagree with this?

Perhaps we ought to start another thread on opening headings? Seems like a bit off thread drift here.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[StealthyB 0]

I find this discussion on antennas and winds pretty interesting, and have to pretty much agree with Yuri's opinions.
I have around 250 slider up antenna jumps and while I have never had an object strike I've had some interesting openings, and witnessed one person get hung up and require a rescue. In that incident the person hit the wire with his body and slid off on one side of the cable while his canopy flew over the other side and knotted over the cables as it brushed them as he slid down......I believe this may have saved his life.
I think that one of the biggest dangers in hitting guidewires is canopy damage and especially severed lines if they take the brunt of the impact.
I've always felt that antenna jumps are among the safest fixed object jumps available if there are winds. obviously strong winds down the center are optimal, but any winds off the wires increase safety proportionally as they move 5, 10, 15,etc.degrees to center. Also, I've known many jumpers to turn at varying angles in freefall towards the direction of the wind in order to open heading into the wind (don't overlook the potential for an off heading opening favoring the tower.) I think decisions to do this should depend on experience and how current you are.
I am far from an expert in this sport and am curious to get some feedback, specifically what is the general consensus on slider down jumps off antennas in high winds, I know that there are people out there jumping bridges and antennas in stiff winds but it's always seemed to me that unless you have proportional downward speed that you are risking some unpredictable openings and possible potential for malfunctions?
Also, there are more and more big towers being erected to accommodate Hi-def. tv, is there much wingsuit activity off 1500' + towers?
Thanks,
StealthyB

[RayLosli 11]

Perhaps we ought to start another thread on opening headings? Seems like a bit off thread drift here.
..................


Man.... don't split it up
Heading are on every object.

It would be a major plus to see different people's mechanical Habits
On Antenna jumps.

I would like to add a few theries of wind and exit
Also speed at which your canopy stages & opens to freefall body speed
in relationship to speed of cranking tail winds on Tower jumps.
when I get a chance to type more latter
............................................

base- 813
I have always been of the belief that pack jobs are low down on the list for off heading problems:

Body positioning and Awarness is a greater value than pack job.

40 % - Pack Job
10 % - Out side Influence
50 % - Body Positioning and Awareness
(just my opinion)

[CrazyThomas 0]

clipped for the main points I saw

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slider up antenna jumps and while I have never had an object strike I've had some interesting openings,

I've always felt that antenna jumps are among the safest fixed object jumps available if there are winds. obviously strong winds down the center are optimal, but any winds off the wires increase safety proportionally as they move 5, 10, 15,etc.degrees to center.

I know that there are people out there jumping bridges and antennas in stiff winds but it's always seemed to me that unless you have proportional downward speed that you are risking some unpredictable openings and possible potential for malfunctions?

I agree with the proportional downward speed part. I have always favored slider up openings in winds, as usually slider up means taking a longer delay. Not only does a longer delay achieve more seperation from the tower, but it also means higher deployment velocity.
Something to the tune that as long as I am traveling faster downward than the wind is traveling across me, there will be neglible wind affect on opening heading.

Sorry Mac. Slider up also means more of a climb if an elevator is not readily available.

Thomas

[TomAiello 26]

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40 % - Pack Job
10 % - Out side Influence
50 % - Body Positioning and Awareness
(just my opinion)

If I had to write that list, I'd include wind, especially for slider down openings. I'd also include the random black death factor that just tries to kill us.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

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I know that there are people out there jumping bridges and antennas in stiff winds but it's always seemed to me that unless you have proportional downward speed that you are risking some unpredictable openings and possible potential for malfunctions?

Sure. But if the stiff wind comes from behind you, and the landing area is good (or, especially if the jump is over water in case of greater than offheading malfunction), then the offheading won't matter much

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Something to the tune that as long as I am traveling faster downward than the wind is traveling across me, there will be neglible wind affect on opening heading.

I believe this is a good generalization for slider down BASE jumps. Slider up, I'd tend to disagree. Short delays slider up are going to be worse than long delays slider down in the same wind, I think.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[greeny 0]

Sorry to get picky Tom, but in ref to:

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I will try to beat 9-lives record of 79 feet in a couple of years/more jumps too...

The lowest BASE jump I know of is 63'. You can see the video of this jump on Jason Bell's excellent "Fixed 2".

Was 9-lives 79ft jump done over solid ground?

I ask because I believe the 63' jump on Fixed 2 was done into water! We often jump our local 100ft cliff into water with no riggs. Low base jump records should only count if done over solid ground. That said doing them over water is a great way of test jumping at low heights to see if you want to progress back to the land.

Greeny

[Faber 0]

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I ask because I believe the 63' jump on Fixed 2 was done into water! We often jump our local 100ft cliff into water with no riggs. Low base jump records should only count if done over solid ground. That said doing them over water is a great way of test jumping at low heights to see if you want to progress back to the land.

I agree´,even as i still will say that sub 100ft BASE is impressive then i count records over hard ground.
Not that i ever will have the balls to do what any of thouse guys did(wheter it were over hardground or water),its still amasing...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[RayLosli 11]

Wind is one of the out things that I meant by ( Outside Influence ).

Outside influence can also include how pinned out you are (nervous)
on a jump, To what you get to stand on when you launch from the Tower.
Cross brace, Light Box, Crow's Nest, etc. for a foot hold.

Just my opinion but....
I feel that the, "Random Black Death Factor" that tries to kill us.
Has about as much relevance on a jump as......
... Magic.

Air speed of Free Fall, to the speed of the relative tail wind, Plus...
You need to stage a Firm, Slider-up opening.
Not a ball buster, Not a Snivel.
Let the canopy hang around as little as possible on opening for the
least amount of that outside influence of wind.
Might be the best combination ?

[CrazyThomas 0]

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You need to stage a Firm, Slider-up opening.
Not a ball buster, Not a Snivel.

Is this why people still take mesh sliders even to terminal speeds? A large hole mesh slider with a vented Fox with a 6-8 second delay was not an overly abusive opening. much past 8 I can't speak of, but if I remember correct, our favorite Greeny mentioned something before about mesh sliders on terminal walls.

Anyone out there using sail sliders?


Thomas

[base570 1]

[reply Anyone out there using sail sliders?
Thomas

[DexterBase 1]

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40 % - Pack Job
10 % - Out side Influence
50 % - Body Positioning and Awareness
(just my opinion)

If I had to write that list, I'd include wind, especially for slider down openings. I'd also include the random black death factor that just tries to kill us.

Of course, if you packjobs suck to begin with... have a good one, I'll exit after you so I can get your groovy opening on video.