Faber 0 #26 November 12, 2004 Quote I'm used to 290's and 300's and am very comfortable with slow flight, riser turns, and flat turns under them which perhaps wont help you much,in the BASE envioment things happens FAST!!! i have flewn between stuff i didnt wanted to hit,whith a speed that i thourght only i could get in my xfire 99,even as im jumping a Fox 265. I dont want to flame you but as people says its only to your best.Keep having the villing to learn more dont be in a hurry.Im soon as you got the skills which is recomended and you learned more about your flight people will welcome you to the BASE envioment.But as said you´ll need to learn basics first,none of us here likes to tel if a buddy is dead or hurt. My surgestion is that you should keep practice landings as you do,perhaps close to stuff as trees or so...Landing at a center on a big grassfeild aint a big deal but it is if you have limited space to fly on and turbulence.. and you should be abel to do this each time.. not once in a while.. enjoy the adventure Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #27 November 12, 2004 Quote My surgestion is that you should keep practice landings as you do,perhaps close to stuff as trees or so...Landing at a center on a big grassfeild aint a big deal but it is if you have limited space to fly on and turbulence.. and you should be abel to do this each time.. not once in a while.. Or Fabers favourite, try landing through trees that have a brick wall one side and a large wire fence 10ft away from it on the other side. - Dam! I did not even think a canopy would fit in there! - never mind landing on the ground! "ITS OK! IM ALRIGHT!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #28 November 12, 2004 Notice on the dvd soon to be out that it takes me werry litel time to get my treehucking canopy whith me(yes i got it whith me whith out a scratch,ad as Mac states i landed at the ground standing upbut i agree might abit tightI i jump there again ill take the main lz as i have no more to prove "Duude-i cant belive you felt asleep after doing the building"-BASE813 Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #29 November 12, 2004 QuoteQuote I'm used to 290's and 300's and am very comfortable with slow flight, riser turns, and flat turns under them which perhaps wont help you much,in the BASE envioment things happens FAST!!! My bad. This summer I asked some BASE guys in FL what I need to do to start getting ready and they told me I needed to be practicing accuracy and low/emergency turn stuff under canopy. I guess I just though tI was working in the right direction. Oh well, even if that's not relavant to BASE at least it helps me be a better skydiver. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #30 November 12, 2004 your not all wrong,its the first steps of learning your canopy But notice in serval BASE video out there that it usaly aint a big grass feild you can land in.. Most injuryes happens under canopyes,flying a canopy in an envioment were you need to fly perfect you better know the canopy well. Nothing bad in learning accuracy at all just wanted to make sure that you also should lean it close to stuff.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE864 0 #31 November 12, 2004 QuoteSeriously, if you're going to be fat (like me) you need to be thinking alot, and preparing. Tom, if you're fat, then what am I? The Stay-Puff Marshmellow Man or Andre the Giant? I think maybe I should 'weigh' in on this issue too. For the few of you that know me, you know I'm one of the biggest BASE jumpers out there right now. I jump a vented FLiK 322. The only problems I've had with that canopy are that when I ordered it I didn't get the vents. That caused some issues with low jumps and bad landings. After getting it vented and jumping similar low objects, I have had nothing but great landings. I've also skydived it several times (hop-n-pops) and still had great landings. Since I got the vents added, I've been extremely happy with the 322 and was happy with the landings from high objects before I got the vents. There is big BASE specific gear out there. I think the FLiK 322 is a great canopy for big jumpers. I've even heard rumors that an even bigger canopy is being put on the drawing board. But, like everyone else in this thread is saying, the bigger you are, the harder you fall. The margin for safety is way narrower for us big guys and that means we have to be that much more on our game. Us bigger jumpers also need to be aware of the fact that we put much more stress on our gear and that it will need to be inspected and/or reparied/replaced more frequently. (Nobady said being fat was cheap!). Later, BASE864 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #32 November 13, 2004 QuoteThe only problems I've had with that canopy are that when I ordered it I didn't get the vents. That caused some issues with low jumps and bad landings. How did getting vents improve your landings? A vented canopy (with covers) might pressurize quicker but can't fly/flare better than an otherwise identical non-vented canopy. Did you get better landings because the vents gave you more time under canopy or does it sink better because of the vents? Will Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
K763 0 #33 November 14, 2004 Currently the largest FLiK available is the 322. Apex BASE Perris also offers a FOX 315. There are BASE jumpers that are getting bigger as well as new jumpers that are just big to begin with... I think one jumper is over 300 lbs, and he's jumping a 322 FLiK...so it is being done, but by experienced guys, not beginners. Perhaps there are even larger canopies on the horizon.... K Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #34 November 14, 2004 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The only problems I've had with that canopy are that when I ordered it I didn't get the vents. That caused some issues with low jumps and bad landings. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How did getting vents improve your landings? A vented canopy (with covers) might pressurize quicker but can't fly/flare better than an otherwise identical non-vented canopy. i do agree whith you Will. i dont think sinking is a vent thing,glide ratio could help on that one,but having compared canopyes in the same size and aprox 130 jumps since i jumped an unvented canopy(undersized)im might not the person to say.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicrussell 0 #35 November 14, 2004 QuoteCurrently the largest FLiK available is the 322. Apex BASE Perris also offers a FOX 315. There are BASE jumpers that are getting bigger as well as new jumpers that are just big to begin with... I think one jumper is over 300 lbs, and he's jumping a 322 FLiK...so it is being done, but by experienced guys, not beginners. Perhaps there are even larger canopies on the horizon.... K Damn we are almost in Tandem range. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #36 November 14, 2004 I think that that big canopyes will give most jumpers problems. The jumper will be limited to jump off some high objects to make sure the canopy inflates before impact. i think i rather use a smaller canopy and then jump the objects whith realative safe lz´s but thats might just my desire to low objects... I would like to see the video were the jumper hurts his tailbone due a PCA from 230ft.. Im wondering if the brakes are set too deep and stall him intothe ground rather than getting a lift... Personaly i tryed somthing similar while making my new brake settings.. Personaly i do belive that a 322canopy pcaed off 230 ft vented or unvented should inflate and get flying before the jumper hits the ground.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tymkoder 0 #37 November 14, 2004 Faber, lets just say for argument that BASE864 is 300# and is jumping a 322 that is a wing loading of .9317 the recomended weight is about 200# - 260# max.. or .6 - .81 wingloading. (correct me if im wrong) Also take into account how a canopy is made. making a canopy BIGGER does not = the SAME opening and flight performance. we do know that 1. fat people fall faster (depending on air resistance) 2. big canopy opens slower 3. no vents open slower 4. FAT people hit harder. Faber good call on the BRAKES. It is possible that he was stalling the canopy thus not allowing it to infalte.or used too deep of a brake setting. JUST my .02CHICKEN MAN BASE 954 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #38 November 14, 2004 Quote...too deep of a brake setting. Unless he had a custom _very_ deep brake setting, this is unlikely. Factory brakes come set for a loading around .75 or so (the manufacturers recommended suspended load). Adding additional weight means the brakes are too shallow, not too deep. I'd guess that a 300 pound jumper under a 322 canopy with factory brakes would have tremendous forward speed on opening. I'd also guess that the appropriate deep brake setting for such a wingloading would put the tail line attachment points down near (or past) the A lines, when packing--so it ought to be very obvious that the brakes are so deep, even on casual inspection (because the tailgate would have to be moved several inches to accomodate the new brake setting).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #39 November 15, 2004 how much do you talk about Tom? I moved my brakes 10cm/4inch deeper whith out touching the tailgate,i do belive 5cm/2inch more will make the canopy stall in opening and i dont think you will beabel to see this diff that much on the lines.. Actualy i moved my original Fox vtec brake setting 10 cm/4inch and only 5cm/2inch on my Flik vtec(didnt remove the 5th line yet as it need a chance) On both canopyes i do belive a deeper brake setting would stall the canopy. I even somtimes(depending on the object) takes the brakes abit more shallow if i SL it...(did other make the same adjustments on SL jumps?) NOTE: im only talking slider off jumps here,the world of slider up i dont dare to comment Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #40 November 15, 2004 Quotehow much do you talk about Tom? Not owning a Flik 322, and not weighing 300 pounds, it's all hypothetical. But I'd say to properly adjust forward speed in that configuration, you'd have to move the setting quite a bit. I know that to create appropriate forward speed (i.e. minimal) in brakes on my FOX 265 when I weighed 210, I had to overshoot the factory installed tailgate by about 3 inches.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE864 0 #41 November 15, 2004 QuoteHow did getting vents improve your landings? A vented canopy (with covers) might pressurize quicker but can't fly/flare better than an otherwise identical non-vented canopy. Did you get better landings because the vents gave you more time under canopy or does it sink better because of the vents? Comparing my previously unvented FLiK 322 landings to my recently vented FLiK 322 landings - I feel they were the same. I have skydived the FLiK 322 (both unvented and vented) several times and I would say I didn't notice any difference in the landings. Landings at Bridge Day (one year unvented and the next vented) were the same as well. (FYI - brake settings were identical on both unvented and vented slider up jumps.) Thus, I'm saying I don't seen any difference in slider-up jumps between the unvented and vented FLiK. As for better landings on low, slider down, jumps with the vented canopy - they were much better because the canopy was pressured and flying quicker and thus gave me some range to get a good flare with plenty of lift. I don't think I can comment about the sink because I haven't had to sink it in on a low jump.....yet. Later, BASE864 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE864 0 #42 November 15, 2004 I would like to see the video were the jumper hurts his tailbone due a PCA from 230ft.. Im wondering if the brakes are set too deep and stall him intothe ground rather than getting a lift...Quote I'll get the video posted as soon as I can (although it clearly shows the location of the jumps for all of you that have been there....) Ok - now to talk about brake settings.... If memory serves me right, when I was PCA'd off 230' with the unvented canopy, I didn't move my toggles up the lines at all to help get a deeper flare. I also didn't adjust the stow point either (the FLiK only has one stow point in the lines as apposed to my old Mojo that had two.). So, when I landed I most definately didn't stall the canopy out - if anything, I didn't get enough flare. But the under-infated end cells didn't help either. The next time I jumped the same object with the vented canopy, I learned from the previous year and move my toggle setting higher up the steering line (about 1/2 way between the end of the line and the stow point). The deeper flare greatly helped my flare, along with the fully flying and pressureized canopy. I have a bunch of jumps at the potatoe bridge (slider down) on my old Mojo 280. I had the breaks set higher and was using the top stow setting. I had great landings with those toggle settings on that canopy. I haven't jumped my FLiK there, so I have no comparison for it yet. Later, BASE864 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #43 November 15, 2004 Could you confirm, are you talking about vents with covers? I have a vented (no covers) Fox '265 w. 5 upper control lines and am quite happy with the steep approaches it allows. Some now advocate against 5th upper control line mods on Foxes, DW and JJ recommended it to me and I've had good results. Will Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE864 0 #44 November 15, 2004 QuoteCould you confirm, are you talking about vents with covers? All my posts have been about vents w/ covers. Nothing I have posted is meant to be just vents only. In my world, the vents always have covers. Later, BASE864 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #45 November 15, 2004 QuoteI'll get the video posted as soon as I can (although it clearly shows the location of the jumps for all of you that have been there....) well not if you cantbut then please feel free to mail it to me i can take 10mb,max. Quotenow to talk about brake settings.... sounds like you didnt personalice your brake settings,i would advise you to. Also if you didnt touch the brake settings i find it unlikely that you stalled intothe ground as you also sayQuoteI most definately didn't stall the canopy out - if anything, I didn't get enough flare Quotethe under-infated end cells didn't help either. is this a unvented thing?? I have landed my vented fox on 5 cell aprox 10 times whith great flare(they pop out as you do the final flare). Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
