grega 0 #1 February 2, 2004 About a month ago i bought a new oxygn. everything worked flawlessly for about 20 jumps. Then it started opening in freefall (freeflying). I removed the lens to see what's wrong and noticed that the ratchets that were keeping the visor closed, got broken. I think that it's not an assembly problem, but rather a design problem. I talked to skysystems and they sent me a new ratchets. But i'm afraid that when i'll put those in, they'll last for another 20 jumps and then broke again, because the forces that apply to those plastic ratchets are just too big for that kind of material (plastic) ratchets are made of. Or at least i think so... Currently i'm wearing goggles with oxygn, but in that case i'd rather buy a factory diver which is around 100$ cheaper. I'd really like the visor to work as it should. Has any of you had the same problem? and what did you do. Any advice is appreciated."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koz2000 1 #2 February 2, 2004 That's why the majority of freefliers use open face helmets. Some guys are now using the Bonehead Boomerang as far as a full face but the visor is fixed. But it's better to use an open face. It's not a design problem since the Oxygen is designed to be used for RW, not freeflying. D______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 February 2, 2004 QuoteThen it started opening in freefall (freeflying). The helmet is not designed for that.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #4 February 2, 2004 Well i hope you're right and it won't broke once again, because i did bought it for RW and will use the visor only for RW from now on. I'm yet to buy an optik with a camera for freeflying. But is it true that all you RW fliers hadn't had any problems so far with oxygn visor opening in freefal? Because those ratchets probably broke when closing and opening the visor, and not because of higher wind speed (freeflying). If anyone has better explanation of how and why ratchets could broke please explain..."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #5 February 2, 2004 QuoteAbout a month ago i bought a new oxygn. everything worked flawlessly for about 20 jumps. Then it started opening in freefall (freeflying). I removed the lens to see what's wrong and noticed that the ratchets that were keeping the visor closed, got broken. I think that it's not an assembly problem, but rather a design problem. I talked to skysystems and they sent me a new ratchets. But i'm afraid that when i'll put those in, they'll last for another 20 jumps and then broke again, because the forces that apply to those plastic ratchets are just too big for that kind of material (plastic) ratchets are made of. Or at least i think so... Currently i'm wearing goggles with oxygn, but in that case i'd rather buy a factory diver which is around 100$ cheaper. I'd really like the visor to work as it should. Has any of you had the same problem? and what did you do. Any advice is appreciated. OK, looking at this as an engineer with an OXYGN (and having nothing to do with the company). It looks to me that the ratchet itself isn't what keeps the visor shut. The several detents are to hold it open in various positions. Located that close to the hinge point, they cannot possibly provide enough leverage to counter wind force on the visor in freefall. There is an additional feature of the "ratchet" hinge, which is that a fairly strong spring pulls the visor towards the rear, and in the fully closed position it can move backwards maybe 2mm more than in other positions. This allows the visor itself and its rubber surround to pull back into the recess in the helmet shell, effectively locking it in place. The resistance to opening is provided by this, NOT by the ratchet mechanism per se. All that does is provide the rearward force holding the visor into the shell's recess. I once had the visor open on me (during an RW jump) which made me examine the mechanism to see what had happened, and I came to the conclusion in the previous paragraph. Since then, when closing the visor, I make sure that the rubber visor surround is properly located into the shell recess, by running my fingers around and pushing it into position. I have had no further problems. I have about 600 jumps on my OXYGN, I still have the original hinges. I replace the visor every 100 jumps or so on account of scratches. When you replace the hinges and visor, make sure you put the hinges in the right way around. There are 8 different ways you can assemble it, only one of which is correct.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #6 February 2, 2004 QuoteBut is it true that all you RW fliers hadn't had any problems so far with oxygn visor opening in freefal? Because those ratchets probably broke when closing and opening the visor, and not because of higher wind speed (freeflying). If anyone has better explanation of how and why ratchets could broke please explain... We had a guy at our dz, same problem, ratchet thingy broke, shield flew off in freefall and it was on an RW jump. It happened to him again, but I believe he was sit flying. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #7 February 2, 2004 Quote OK, looking at this as an engineer with an OXYGN (and having nothing to do with the company). It looks to me that the ratchet itself isn't what keeps the visor shut. The several detents are to hold it open in various positions. Located that close to the hinge point, they cannot possibly provide enough leverage to counter wind force on the visor in freefall. There is an additional feature of the "ratchet" hinge, which is that a fairly strong spring pulls the visor towards the rear, and in the fully closed position it can move backwards maybe 2mm more than in other positions. This allows the visor itself and its rubber surround to pull back into the recess in the helmet shell, effectively locking it in place. The resistance to opening is provided by this, NOT by the ratchet mechanism per se. All that does is provide the rearward force holding the visor into the shell's recess. I once had the visor open on me (during an RW jump) which made me examine the mechanism to see what had happened, and I came to the conclusion in the previous paragraph. Since then, when closing the visor, I make sure that the rubber visor surround is properly located into the shell recess, by running my fingers around and pushing it into position. I have had no further problems. I have about 600 jumps on my OXYGN, I still have the original hinges. I replace the visor every 100 jumps or so on account of scratches. When you replace the hinges and visor, make sure you put the hinges in the right way around. There are 8 different ways you can assemble it, only one of which is correct. I came to the same conclusion when examining the system, i just didn't mind explaining how it works. There are three parts of plastics one is on the visor, and the other two (circular ones) that are one inside the other. one is kept inside the other with two little rathcets. and if you want that spring to work, those two circular plastics have to stay together. Well at my oxygn those two little rathcets that hold two circular plastics together broke. So the strong spring and everything else in that mechanism isn't working. I also closed the visor and pushed it all the way into the helmet, so rubber on the visor was tight against the helmet. But it opened in freefal anyway. That was on FreeFly jump, so it might wouldn't happened if i did RW. Has any of you considered making those ratchets out of stronger material. some carbon fiber or metal,... Because if those ratchets wouldn't break, there is no possible way that visor would get open, even at speeds more than 300km/h."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #8 February 2, 2004 Quoteeven at speeds more than 300km/h. Wanna bet? I've had 3 failures of lenses on full face helmets, all freeflying (sit flying to be more specific): 1) Oxygn: Lens came up and was torn off, broke 1 hinge on the way out. 2) Oxygn: Lens was taped shut. Lens tore in half. 3) Factory diver: Lens was ripped out of the "velcro" that holds it in. The only full face I could recomend for freeflying right now with a lens would be the Bomerang from Bonehead. That said, I don't wear a lens in any full face anymore. They're too expensive to keep replacing all the time.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MuffDiver 0 #9 February 2, 2004 At least they only cost a couple bucks to replace. Invest in some duct tape if your going to freeflying with it. __________________________________________________ Don't take life too seriously. You'll never get out alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #10 February 2, 2004 QuoteQuoteBut is it true that all you RW fliers hadn't had any problems so far with oxygn visor opening in freefal? Because those ratchets probably broke when closing and opening the visor, and not because of higher wind speed (freeflying). If anyone has better explanation of how and why ratchets could broke please explain... We had a guy at our dz, same problem, ratchet thingy broke, shield flew off in freefall and it was on an RW jump. It happened to him again, but I believe he was sit flying. Judy I don't think the helmet was designed for freeflying. In RW the air pressures would generally push the faceplate into the recess and make it more secure. However, it IS important to make sure the faceplate IS snug in the recess in the shell even for RW. I am convinced that is why mine came open, even though it seemed properly closed because the ratchet clicked.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #11 February 3, 2004 I'll be doing only RW with the visor from now on. So let's just hope that you're all right and the ratchets won't break and the visor won't open in freefall. But in RW visor probably wouldn't open (most of the times) even if the ratchets would be broken. Well i'll see in a couple of weeks, after a few jumps with new ratchets, anyway. Thanks for the replies, if anybody else still knows something i don't, please tell. Because i'm still not sure that the ratchets won't break even if doing only RW, because they probably broke when opening and closing the lens. That's when the forces on the ratchets are the highest."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #12 February 3, 2004 Quote However, it IS important to make sure the faceplate IS snug in the recess in the shell even for RW. I am convinced that is why mine came open, even though it seemed properly closed because the ratchet clicked. I agree, visor has to be snug so it doesn't open. but if the ratchets are not broken, the visor is pulled back with those strong springs, as explained in a post above. And the visor is snug in the shell with those springs. that's why the ratchets and the springs are there. In my case (and probably some other cases too), those ratchets broke. So when you are closing the visor, right when you push it over the top "edge" on the helmet, the springs should pull the visor back in so it's snug. But instead the visor stays a little loose. You can still push it in, so it's snug, manualy. And at RW it probably stays closed that way most of the time. But a little more wind (diving) from a little different angle, and the visor will probably open. That's why ratchets should work. And that's my point. As said above, i still think that if the ratchets are working as they should - are not broken, the lens would probably stayed closed even at freeflying. Well mine stayed closed for 20 jumps at speeds up to 280km/h. Until the ratchets broke, then visor started opening in freefal (freefly) of course. So yes you can say again, it's not designed for freefly, but i think it's designed for any flight, while the ratchets are working. When the ratchets break (aprox. after 20-100 openings and closings of the visor), the helmets is designed only for RW. And you still have to push the lens in manually so you're more sure that it won't open in freefal. So all of you who close the visor, and after the visor is pulled over the top edge, if it's not completely snug, if the visor is about 5mm out of the position, please open the lens system and check the ratchets. I bet they are broken. p.s.:I really hope i'm wrong and it will work flawlessly for RW, and that rathcets won't break. "George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unutsch 0 #13 February 3, 2004 why the hell do you still wan't to fly on your belly??? grega, you made my day very sad... just kidding, i'm just jealous off you and your rw skills NOT!!! anyway, i'll post you some pics of the Vrsar bigway quite soon Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #14 February 4, 2004 Quotewhy the hell do you still wan't to fly on your belly??? grega, you made my day very sad... Because i'm FreeFlyer. Cccc you're really forgetting what Freefly is all about. It's about flying however you like, whenever you like,... Oh and i can't miss that slovenian big way this year now can i? That's why i'm still belly flying "George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinfree 0 #15 February 4, 2004 Don't tighten down the covers over the ratchets...well not gorilla tight...snug is all you need. The ratchets hold the helmet closed not the cover bolt. Give it a try. I seem to remember reading that somewhere. 600 jumps with an oxygen and it has happened only 2 times sitting both times. Not counting the numerous times I left the airplane with the visor open. Never have lost the lens though. At Quincy a few years ago I was on a load with Chris Needles from USPA and he lost his on exit . He didn't have the ratchets in the right way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
