JaapSuter 0 #1 April 20, 2005 Quoting myself from another thread: QuoteUnfortunately we'll never find out, because we don't have video. I will honestly admit that I was never a death-grip baseball-style pilotchute pitcher. The line of thought being that throwing your PC too far away might cause oscillations. My throwing technique has always worked for skydives (never had burble problems) and in all my stowed base jumps, so I figured it was strong enough. Rest assured that I am now a converted death-grip pitcher. I am going to get that PC as far away from me as possible. I would rather risk having an offheading induced by pilotchute oscillations than a pilotchute hesitation or failure. Maybe once I get to a more advanced level, I can start thinking about putting back some moderation in my pitch, but for now I'm going to huck that thing away from my body like it's a ticking timebomb. Are there any other experienced jumpers that want to comment on these thoughts, or on pitching techniques in general? Cheers, Jaap Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #2 April 20, 2005 If you've ever seen a quarterback pitch a football, this is how I envision throwing a pilot chute. Nothing eccentric, but following this motion is a good visual. I've thrown lazily more than a few times while skydiving, but this has never bothered me. Obviously when it comes to BASE and dancing with altitude, I'm sure we're all a little more aware and careful regarding the 'throw.' I don't think there's ever been a stowed jump where I haven't reached back at least 2 or 3 times and done practice pulls. Engrain that muscle memory, but never become careless with it. Again, like throwing a baseball or pitching a football, I always focus on releasing the handle and 'flinging' it out there at the point of full arm extension. This all probably sounds very obvious, but I suppose counting on doing the simple tasks correctly is what keeps us alive. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PerFlare 0 #3 April 20, 2005 Hi Brittany, I disagree with you. A super hard pitch like you describe (correct me if I am wrong, but that is the way I understand your reply) are sub optimal. There are more concerns then the pitch itself, like body position. I have seen allot of baseball pitches that results in bad body position. I like to throw the pilot chute to bridle stretch, more effort are a waste so I would say, throw your pilot chute to bridle stretch. I teach my students to visualize and practice with that in mind, bridle stretch … make sure to get it out there but do not over do it, no need. PerFlare Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #4 April 20, 2005 I'm guessing if you and brit filmed each other's throwouts there wouldn't be that much difference. I don't think she's advocating a huge windup and follow-through... yeah that would result in some funky body positions. But like her I throw it out with quite a bit of authority. But more in a quick snapping motion. I've gotten to where I can do it pretty quickly without a huge amount of arm motion or body english. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plowdirt 0 #5 April 20, 2005 i was wondering when you were going to get to this. Thats the way I had invisioned a PC deployment, hard,stern, and with a statement!!!! I also do pay attention to the videos I watch here and the ones in my collection. i did notice that a video that I seen on here, (ikesenlow) not sure but something like that, this guy pitches every time hard , But as he does so his left hand ,arm, reach up to the back of his helmet, kinda like a pose,sure doesn't look like that shoulder could possibly drop. And quit packing your self line twist and off heading openings. Couldn't believe I was reading that, I would suppose practice, yea but. NO. be safe man, i like reading your posts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mikki_ZH 0 #6 April 20, 2005 Quote And quit packing your self line twist and off heading openings. Couldn't believe I was reading that, I would suppose practice, yea but. NO. Quote If you BASE jump, you will eventually (or almost certainly) be in both situations. And if you are in this situation, you will feel much better and more secure if it is not for the first time und you have practiced what to do before. And there is no better place to do this then a span because there is only a minimal chance of a wall strike. Therefore he is very safe practicing this!Michi (#1068) hsbc/gba/sba www.swissbaseassociation.ch www.michibase.ch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #7 April 20, 2005 Quote...and 'flinging' it out there at the point of full arm extension... Have you filmed your PC during the move to bridle stretch? I know that _most_ of the people I've seen do a 'flinging' motion have a tendency to impart rotation to the PC. In many cases, I've actually seen the PC (still bundled) perform complete rotations (360 degrees) while moving to bridle extension. I noticed that I was doing this a couple years ago, and spent a morning "re-training" myself on the ground, to pitch without rotating the PC. I found that in my case a wrist flick (much like the motion used when throwing a ball) was the culprit.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brits17 0 #8 April 20, 2005 QuoteI disagree with you. A super hard pitch like you describe (correct me if I am wrong, but that is the way I understand your reply) are sub optimal. I don't think we disagree... I noted that the throw wasn't anything 'eccentric' as I have seen someone pitch super hard and disorient their body position. A 'soft' baseball throw or football pitch isn't advocating a massive windup. Thanks for asking and good input. Zennie: QuoteI've gotten to where I can do it pretty quickly without a huge amount of arm motion or body english. What he said. Tom: QuoteHave you filmed your PC during the move to bridle stretch? I know that _most_ of the people I've seen do a 'flinging' motion have a tendency to impart rotation to the PC. Hey Tom, good point! Yes I've seen my throwout (and bridle stretch) from the top view plenty of times and no rotations, but you bring up a very good case. Sometimes its difficult to describe a motion online without little picture references I think really, the idea I was trying to present was the reference to release the grip at arm extension. We all have experience throwing balls around, so hence the comparison. But yeah, weird wrist rotations or funky flings can promote oscillation. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakboy066 0 #9 April 21, 2005 I was told to pitch the pilot chute using a wrist flick,and to do this 45 degrees off the body.The 45 degrees is so that you do not pitch it to your side to hard,and possibly give yourself off-headings to the left.I personally have seen this with a couple of my friends,and since showing them the video of both ways they have cheanged ,and seen better results.Anyone else have any comments on this.Hope this helps.http://freakboy066.tripod.com/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #10 April 21, 2005 QuoteI was told to pitch the pilot chute using a wrist flick... Have you filmed the pitch to see if you are spinning the PC?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakboy066 0 #11 April 21, 2005 I filmed a couple of people including myself.The PC osilates,but we are not pitching it in a turn.It seems if you pitch to hard to the right the parachute starts to pull out to the right ,and creates an off-heading to the left.Let me know what you think on this. Anyone done the same experiment?http://freakboy066.tripod.com/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #12 April 21, 2005 QuoteIt seems if you pitch to hard to the right the parachute starts to pull out to the right ,and creates an off-heading to the left.Let me know what you think on this. Anyone done the same experiment? What kind of PC are you using? I've seen this sort of thing with ZP, less of it with apex vented, and virtually none with F-111. Also, what kind of rig? I wonder if a velcro rig would dampen the effect, because the shrivel flap would take more force to pull.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakboy066 0 #13 April 21, 2005 All 3 rigs were pin rigs.All PC's the first time around were ZP,2nd time around F-111.http://freakboy066.tripod.com/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brits17 0 #14 April 21, 2005 QuoteI filmed a couple of people including myself.The PC osilates,but we are not pitching it in a turn.It seems if you pitch to hard to the right the parachute starts to pull out to the right ,and creates an off-heading to the left.Let me know what you think on this. Anyone done the same experiment? I've seen this but its always been due to a left to right wind dragging the pilot chute, not due to a hard pitch. Not saying it can't happen however. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 0 Go To Topic Listing
TomAiello 26 #7 April 20, 2005 Quote...and 'flinging' it out there at the point of full arm extension... Have you filmed your PC during the move to bridle stretch? I know that _most_ of the people I've seen do a 'flinging' motion have a tendency to impart rotation to the PC. In many cases, I've actually seen the PC (still bundled) perform complete rotations (360 degrees) while moving to bridle extension. I noticed that I was doing this a couple years ago, and spent a morning "re-training" myself on the ground, to pitch without rotating the PC. I found that in my case a wrist flick (much like the motion used when throwing a ball) was the culprit.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #8 April 20, 2005 QuoteI disagree with you. A super hard pitch like you describe (correct me if I am wrong, but that is the way I understand your reply) are sub optimal. I don't think we disagree... I noted that the throw wasn't anything 'eccentric' as I have seen someone pitch super hard and disorient their body position. A 'soft' baseball throw or football pitch isn't advocating a massive windup. Thanks for asking and good input. Zennie: QuoteI've gotten to where I can do it pretty quickly without a huge amount of arm motion or body english. What he said. Tom: QuoteHave you filmed your PC during the move to bridle stretch? I know that _most_ of the people I've seen do a 'flinging' motion have a tendency to impart rotation to the PC. Hey Tom, good point! Yes I've seen my throwout (and bridle stretch) from the top view plenty of times and no rotations, but you bring up a very good case. Sometimes its difficult to describe a motion online without little picture references I think really, the idea I was trying to present was the reference to release the grip at arm extension. We all have experience throwing balls around, so hence the comparison. But yeah, weird wrist rotations or funky flings can promote oscillation. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakboy066 0 #9 April 21, 2005 I was told to pitch the pilot chute using a wrist flick,and to do this 45 degrees off the body.The 45 degrees is so that you do not pitch it to your side to hard,and possibly give yourself off-headings to the left.I personally have seen this with a couple of my friends,and since showing them the video of both ways they have cheanged ,and seen better results.Anyone else have any comments on this.Hope this helps.http://freakboy066.tripod.com/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #10 April 21, 2005 QuoteI was told to pitch the pilot chute using a wrist flick... Have you filmed the pitch to see if you are spinning the PC?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakboy066 0 #11 April 21, 2005 I filmed a couple of people including myself.The PC osilates,but we are not pitching it in a turn.It seems if you pitch to hard to the right the parachute starts to pull out to the right ,and creates an off-heading to the left.Let me know what you think on this. Anyone done the same experiment?http://freakboy066.tripod.com/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #12 April 21, 2005 QuoteIt seems if you pitch to hard to the right the parachute starts to pull out to the right ,and creates an off-heading to the left.Let me know what you think on this. Anyone done the same experiment? What kind of PC are you using? I've seen this sort of thing with ZP, less of it with apex vented, and virtually none with F-111. Also, what kind of rig? I wonder if a velcro rig would dampen the effect, because the shrivel flap would take more force to pull.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakboy066 0 #13 April 21, 2005 All 3 rigs were pin rigs.All PC's the first time around were ZP,2nd time around F-111.http://freakboy066.tripod.com/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #14 April 21, 2005 QuoteI filmed a couple of people including myself.The PC osilates,but we are not pitching it in a turn.It seems if you pitch to hard to the right the parachute starts to pull out to the right ,and creates an off-heading to the left.Let me know what you think on this. Anyone done the same experiment? I've seen this but its always been due to a left to right wind dragging the pilot chute, not due to a hard pitch. Not saying it can't happen however. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
