Legal and Illegal Cliff Jumps at Lake Pow***

[TomAiello 26]

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And they were for the drilling of rocks and placement of bolts there? Not to bag on climbers, because I think we all do what we do for fun and that's okay, but I always wondered how climbers felt about the "Leave No Trace" ethic when they toss their trash off of walls and drill into rocks to place permanent bolts.

It's virtually unheard of for modern big wall climbers in National Parks (or most other places) to toss trash. It's pretty environmentally unfriendly, and there is a strong peer pressure in the climbing world for environmental sensitivity.

Fixed anchors (such as bolts) actually reduce long term environmental impact. They do this by eliminating the need for repeatedly placing anchors that might damage the rock, and also by concentrating the traffic in one place (in this way, they are somewhat analagous to trails, which help preserve wilderness by concentrating foot traffic in one place, and away from the other places).

Further, fixed anchors are often critical for climbing safety. Imagine the outcry if the park service told us it was ok to BASE jump on their lands, but required us all to jump sub-100 foot swooping canopies in skydiving rigs.

It's kind of sad to see BASE jumpers falling prey to the stereotypes of climbers, when we're trying so hard to escape similar stereotypes ourselves.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[NickDG 23]

I agree Tom, and I was always yelling at Andy C. when he was doing The BASE Gazette about dissing skydivers in order to promote BASE jumping. I also advise people to not blame paragliding when getting busted downtown, or on some other sport when lying injured in a hospital.

However when I hear the climbing argument from BASE jumpers I sort of understand it because no matter how they say it, what they really mean is they don’t get why climbers are allowed to climb and jumpers aren't allowed to jump.

The tradition argument we hear in return doesn't work. If true then all we have to do is keep on jumping for another twenty years and presto, it's a tradition and we'll be allowed to jump. But, we know that won’t happen.

So we should keep the inequity of it on the front burner but not by trying to limit the access of someone else.

You can look abroad to Europe and elsewhere and see environmental and jumper behavior problems are starting to cause problems. So we should also be careful about using the "less impact" argument. No matter how hard we try BASE does have an impact. And sadly, there will always be those among us that will see to that . . .

Someday they will have to allow us into the Parks warts and all simply because it's fair.

NickD BASE 194

[freakydiver 0]

Q:whats the guiding principle in american politics?

most worldly politics actually

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[tfelber 0]

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environmental and jumper behavior problems are starting to cause problems

I've been wondering about this issue. Any "for instances" without being overly specific? For the most part, I don't see BASE being more damaging than hiking or especially climbing.

[NickDG 23]

>>I've been wondering about this issue. Any "for instances" without being overly specific?<<

That's easy. It's right on the current page . . .

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1622542;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

NickD BASE 194

[Calvin19 0]

Maybe, As BASE jumpers, we need these illegal jumps. as in they add a level of enjoyment that legal jumps cant provide. not that i wouldn't mind doing one in the daylight now and then.

-SPACE-

[eUrNiCc 0]

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President of REI calls his senator (Slade Gorton, R-WA).

How about we get REI to start selling BASE gear? Then they'll bully the NPS around a bit and VIOLA Problem solved.

Egad, A BASE life defiles a bad age.

[TomAiello 26]

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Maybe, As BASE jumpers, we need these illegal jumps. as in they add a level of enjoyment that legal jumps cant provide. not that i wouldn't mind doing one in the daylight now and then.

In the immortal words of Dwain Weston:

"I am so over the James Bond shit."

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[JaapSuter 0]

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"I am so over the James Bond shit."

Maybe so, but not until after you've done it a couple of times. I'm still a kid and there are few things more fun than sneaking around in the dark.

Base is the only illegal thing I can ethically reconcile with my ideas about what is right and wrong. I can take video, leave only footprints, break nothing and hurt nobody in the process but myself, and still stick it to the man.

I guess over time I'll change my mind. For now I'll be the young punk that isn't afraid to admit he likes to sneak around. That is; until I get to ride in the back of a police car, stay in jail overnight, take a shower in the morning, and then end up dropping the soap-bar.

Considering I'm not posting anonymously, this post might be a little too honest. Ah, what the heck...

[Calvin19 0]

I will be 18 forever. its just, now that im out of high school, its getting harder and harder to pissoff the dean. i have ravaged his school, destroyed his reputation, and done his daughter, i'm moving on.

but really, I would do anything with any group of jumpers to help the legal situation in NPs, but until somebody gets something going and invites me to help, I love this James Bond Shit.
Cheers tom,
your posts and governing serve these forums well, i hope we will jump together soon. say, memorial day TF?

[Calvin19 0]

I wonder if the NPS is reading this right now.

-SPACE-

[base283 0]

I like your style, It brings to mind an answer to a question. It goes like this. Adult to kid: "What do you want to be when you grow up?", Kid: " BASE jumper!", Adult: "Not possible, One can grow up or be a BASE jumper. not both".
Take care,
space

[blair700 0]

[TomAiello 26]

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Maybe so, but not until after you've done it a couple of times. I'm still a kid and there are few things more fun than sneaking around in the dark.

Plenty of sneaking around to be had on buildings, if you want.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[skypuppy 1]

Funny. That's what my wife keeps saying.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[NickDG 23]

In the mortal words of Marta P.

"You make a lot of legal BASE jumps, and you get lame . . ."

NickD BASE 194

[TomAiello 26]

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In the mortal words of Marta P.

"You make a lot of legal BASE jumps, and you get lame . . ."

I've still got more "less than legal" jumps than legal ones. But that does look set to change sometime this summer.

As I said, there are always going to be plenty of "sneaky" jumps to be had in cities and the like. I don't see "we need the excitement of law breaking" as a very persuasive argument for keeping the NPS prohibition against jumping.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[BASE813 0]

legal? whats that?

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Maybe, As BASE jumpers, we need these illegal jumps. as in they add a level of enjoyment that legal jumps cant provide. not that i wouldn't mind doing one in the daylight now and then.

In other words:

As BASE jumpers we need to send piles of money to the government so they can keep us off our land and then spend thousands more going to foreign countries where we can kick back and relax by making multiple jumps in a day without having to get up before sunrise?

I don't agree. It should be legal although allowing helicopters year round would be obnoxious for the other park guests.

[Faber 0]

yeah speaking of US arround here i wont beabel to jump anything at workdays if it should be legal

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Zennie 0]

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In the mortal words of Marta P.

"You make a lot of legal BASE jumps, and you get lame . . ."

Amen sistah!

Both types of jumps have their merits. Obviously with legal jumps, dealing with The Man is not an issue, so that's one thing not cluttering up your mind.

I've personally found that on the legal objects I tend to try more difficult aerial flippy-do type stuff, probably because I'm more relaxed mentally.

But it's also hard to beat finding a 270-foot crane, analyze the area, dodge a couple of nosy suit-types, jump the object and land successfully. Brits, myself and a newer jumper Darryl just did this and we all agreed that the adrenaline on those sorts of things is hard to beat.

They are both fun and they both scratch different itches. I don't see myself getting "over the James Bond shit" anytime soon. I LIKE the James Bond shit.

As far as the NPS goes, I personally think our jumps SHOULD be legal. So long as I'm not endangering the park or other people, I should have the right to do whatever I please in MY park.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[nicrussell 0]

Helicoptors should never be allowed in the park. If you want the jump in NPS land then I believe you should hike it. People are 'guests' there, however there is a huge wildlife population that lives there year round.

The FAA has strict rules about flying in and above National parks and wilderness sanctuaries. I beleive the current rule to maintain at least 2000 ft. vertical clearance of the highest point. But I dont have my FAR's on me right now, so I could be wrong.

You were probably joking about the helicoptors now that I think about it. oh well.

-nic

[TomAiello 26]

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Helicoptors should never be allowed in the park.

An amazingly enlightened viewpoint for an American, a BASE jumper, and a pilot. Sometimes, I have hope for us.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Colm 1]

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Helicoptors should never be allowed in the park.

An amazingly enlightened viewpoint for an American, a BASE jumper, and a pilot. Sometimes, I have hope for us.

Make that 2 of us.

[DexterBase 1]

You know, I wouldn't even mind if the NPS kept BASE jumping on their do not do list.

Seriously, I think the cloak and dagger stuff is cool too.

But damn, why do they have to be so hard on us? It would be one thing if they cited us and handed us a $500 ticket then sent us on our way. That I could deal with. (I could make myself feel better by telling myself the money was going to relocate the cute little bears that are ripping off car doors or something. Maybe feeding the little squirrels at the pizza place... cute little bastards.)

Our bust last summer cost (between both of us) around $8000 all said and done. That's including rigs, fines, and other equipment permanently confiscated. Oh, and could I get a year of probation on the side, please?

Think about that, what did I do?
Did I rob a bank?
Did I hold up the little shops in Curry Villlage?
Did I get drunk and drive around running over road signs?
Did I assault a Park Ranger?

No, I parachuted off a cliff. I paid the entry fee into the park, hiked out my trash, and even landed on a path in the meadow, not even disturbing a single blade of grass.

The punishment does not fit the crime. As far as I'm concerned, I would be endangering the public far more if I would have driven drunk.

While we were in court, a person was charged with a DUI. Their fine was $1500 and they were given probation. Did the NPS keep their car?

Nope.

At least there's written laws about getting drunk and driving around.

I want someone to explain to me how my parachute jump was over five times as dangerous to the public than drunk driving. That's what the court seems to be trying to tell us.