What to look for in a BASE student?

[Sean621 0]

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Tom,

How or why do you suggest CRW jumps?

CRW is all about putting a large 7 cell (or it was a few yaers ago) into an nch perfect spot,using front and rear risers to effect this as well as sometimes toggle turns...its also about flying close to something,in turbulent air and with a need for heightened reaction times (ask anyone whos been in a wrap) and finally about spacial awareness...this helps when you are landing at the bottom of an object with no toggles into a tight landing area as one of many example cases...any crw dogs want to add any more?

http://www.extreme-on-demand.com

[JoeyRamone 0]

Hey thanks for the information. Funny how a person like me, who has never made a base jump yet would never think about that...

Tim

[TomAiello 26]

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Tom,

How or why do you suggest CRW jumps?

Have a look at Tom Begic's summary of the similarities between CRW and BASE here.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Sean621 0]

i hope you arent being sarcastic

http://www.extreme-on-demand.com

[crwper 7]

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You know it is bad when the ask what Newton discovered.

Calculus?

Michael

[Newtons2nd 0]

Calculus, and everything form of motion, from molecular to black holes, most of it in his 20's, in the early 1700's, and with no other knowledge, in fact everything that he read was flawed in some way so he had little to build on.

Most of it is still used actively, and most of it still checks out to be spot on, yet he couldn't see half of the planetary motion or molecular motion he was postulating.

It only starts to collapse (so to speak) when it is used at the atomic level, which is where QM and QED comes in (quantum mech, and quantum electro dynamics).

[crwper 7]

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How about the simple math to figure out how long it will take to reach a certain altitude based on a variable fall rate? Is it acceptable to just rely on past data and other's suggestions?

I'm one course away from having degrees in Physics and Pure Mathematics. This doesn't mean very much. Maybe what would tell you more is if I said I have a major fetish for information. As well as studying what others have written, I like to do quantitative experiments. But I'm also aware of the limitations to this way of thinking. If you're going to jump an ultra-low object, doing it because the math works out is a terrible way to go. Yeah, to me it's cool to do the math anyway because I dig that sort of thing. But you should also have jumped something slightly higher before, and that should be the major thing which informs your decision to jump.

What am I trying to say? I'm trying to say that the simple freefall chart which is printed on the inside of almost every logbook, as well as the manufacturer's conservative pilot chute sizing chart, are probably the only quantitative information you will ever need. Okay, I'm probably over-simplifying the case here. But if you need a chart to tell you what size pilot chute to use for your 180-foot freefall, you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

A physics degree alone means very little. I've seen plenty of examples of graduate and post-graduate physics students who can do most of the math, but show very little adaptability to unkown problems.

A staggering percentage of the student population actually believes they are learning the right answers. That's one of the big messages we get in school. There is a right answer and a wrong answer, and we're learning the right one. If we buy into this too much, it is at the cost of adaptability.

To get to the point... I think what is more important in a student than book learning is having a certain volume of knowledge, and knowing the limitations of that knowledge. I would rather that someone knew the basic delay and pilot chute charts, but also knew that there was some margin for error in thos numbers, as opposed to "knowing" the exact values. To me, the latter kind of knowledge shows a basic belief that we can know the right answer. The former shows more capacity for growth, which will be one of your greatest allies in this sport.

Michael

[Newtons2nd 0]

Ok here is a response and a question for the other students out there.

--Let's say I have a reputation to protect. I see many other experienced jumpers with little info in their profile.

--I had a bad mishap when I was 22. I raced Superbikes in 97 and 98 and had a local reporter go nuts because I was about to set some record that really wasn't that big of a deal. He blew it out of proportion and included all sorts of other interests in it, including what I ride on the street. Well there was an incident on the street in some old canyons where the speed of pursuit averaged 140 and had half the roads blocked. Well that guy got away due to his knowledge of the area and his ability to ride without allowing adrenalin to overcome acute judgement.

My house was surrounded a day later and I was thrown in jail on a pure hunch. They stated that because of all of the information and PICTURES in tha article, that beyond doubt it had to be me. Worst of all they impouded not only my street stuff but all of my race gear. Well as you can imagine I beat it in court, but it adversely affected my business (not to mention my attitude toward police)which I had spent years after recovering. I would drop business cards, and people would say "aren't you the one who was arrested last month" for outrunning the police?

I am sure this is ringing a ton of bells right now with jumpers who may or may not want their personal info out there.

So the question is what part of the profile will really make my posts more worthy?

I almost did fill it in, but I didn't want to put my real name and personal info and then introduce myself at some exit point as the guy who put a bunch of false information.

So here is another question:

I live very near an "S"and "B" that have rarely been jumped succesfully without the wrong onlookers.

I ride my bike up and down the "S" daily and study the currents and the wind dreaming of the day that I get to pull it off. I have studied the people, the boats, the patrol, and the cameras so that I have a vast knowledge of the right time to go without risking drawing attention.

What do you experienced jumpers do in a situation like that. Do you keep the stories and suggestions to yourself, or do you just post anyway with your name being public information?

[Laird]

-I didn't say I won't share an exit with somebody who hasn't a PhD in physics, I was saying that I think it is a good idea for the NEW students coming over from skydiving like myself to at least understand a few basic concepts about motion.

[crwper 7]

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in fact everything that he read was flawed in some way so he had little to build on.

Everything is flawed. Most theories today are fundamentally a description of a mathematical system whose dynamics happen to be analogous to the dynamics of the world around us. Mathematical theories will always live in the domain of mathematics. The dynamics of the real world will always live in the domain of the real. I think it's very important, and often overlooked, to understand the implications of this. When we say the world is "three-dimensional", for example, what we are really trying to say is, "The world as we see it is nearly analogous to some three-dimensional mathematical system." But by saying it the short way, we've inadvertantly implied that "the world" and "three dimensional" live in the same domain, which they do not.

Okay, maybe this is getting a bit too philosophical for this thread, but to bring it back, I'll say that a BASE student should have as clear an idea as possible of the fact that they are not jumping into a theoretical system. They are jumping into the real world. If anything, I would say too much book learning distances us from this fact. While I think the basic delay and pilot chute charts are fabulous, I also think that when we try to refine them too far, we lose sight of the fact that they were only ever meant as guidelines, not as exact models.

As Nick said, when you stand at the edge of a cliff you will know the difference between theory and reality.

Michael

[cesslon 0]

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Just out of curiousity, do you care at all how important base is to a person?

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Not really. Since it's usually something they haven't done yet, I'd be very surprised to find someone who was obsessed with it.

If I can be obsessed with watching base vidz lol along with thinking "wonder if thats been jumped yet" everytime I look at a kinda high object.
I'm sure there must be some skydiver out there who is planning to BASE and is obsessed with persueing(spelling) that.
but your "obsessed" maybe different to another persons classing of obsessed

[TomAiello 26]

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I live very near an "S"and "B" that have rarely been jumped succesfully without the wrong onlookers.

By definition, you couldn't know how often they are jumped without onlookers. By my personal definitions, you couldn't know how often they've been successfully jumped.

Be careful how certain you are of those things. I've met lots of people who live here and are "certain" that there have been at least 5 BASE fatalities off this bridge.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

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I see many other experienced jumpers with little info in their profile.

The reason they don't get called for anonymous posting is usually because one or more non-anonymous posters know who they are, and can sort of "e-vouch" for them. Check out the "Troll Police" bit where someone wanted to know who Hannes was.

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What do you experienced jumpers do in a situation like that. Do you keep the stories and suggestions to yourself, or do you just post anyway with your name being public information?

Generally, people will talk to other jumpers in a non-public (i.e. off the forum) way about such a jump.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[plowdirt 0]

Ahh something new Thank you Tom. your a gentleman and an esquire.

Ed

[tfelber 0]

The physics of a jump, where will I be when and what wil be the forces acting on or against me, is interesting information to a physicist or the curious. But this knowledge doesn't yield that much useful information; just a better understanding if you have the capacity to comprehend it.

For most activities, the use of successive improvements will yield much better results. This goes back to something Tom mentioned earlier regarding gradually increasing your capabilities. This is the most useful and predictable way of improving performance, especially when the major source of information is the seat of your pants.

To relate this to something you seem familiar with let's look at superbike racing. I'm sure you've heard of Keith Code. He has written several books and has or had a racing school. In his school the first session out you are allowed to use one gear and no brakes to get around the track. This limits many of the variables you encounter entering a corner and lapping a track. You go around the track successively improving your speed. Next you use two gears and minimal brakes and so on until you progress to full use of all control inputs.

This is also in practice in most skydiving and BASE jumping progression. Tom's course specifically, you start by jumping out of a tree. (It's really more complex than that) This gives you some insight into the apprehension you wil face. Next you progress to PCA, next to HH, etc.

Being able to calculate the number of seconds to freefall if I want to be open by x feet AGL is informational, but it isn't all that useful. Gradually increasing your delay until you reach that point is safer and the jumps you make getting to that delay yeields much more useful information than the calculations or the knowledge needed to comprehend the calculations.

[Skinflicka 0]

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What do you look for in a BASE student?

Big boobs ?

Sorry Tom, couldn't resist

bsbd!

Yuri.

Big Boobs and a box...Mike Greer has big boobs but I wouldn't want to bang him.

Besides he looks like a bulldog licking pi$$ off a thistle.

$kin.

Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them.

[JaapSuter 0]

He's back, and he does it in style!

Good work Skinflicka!

[Base733 0]

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What do you look for in a BASE student?

Last night, while out at a new 350' urban object in our fine city, our crew was approached by an individual with no BASE experience who had bought a rig on DZ.com.

After thorough interrogation about the pack job and inspection of the rig, we decided to take him along for the jump and subsequent training.

The determining factor as to his suitability as a BASE student was "... well dude, he's got a Metallica t-shirt on...".

What could possibly go wrong!

[skypuppy 1]

As Nick said, when you stand at the edge of a cliff you will know the difference between theory and reality.
__________________________________________________
Or when you hit the bottom....

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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What could possibly go wrong!

Right! Especially when you've already got Windsock with you!

-C.

[plowdirt 0]

As I said " Big balls and a mentor"

I would not go that route. and who would sell someone that rig???? NO EXP?????


Isn't it like saying, hey kid where'd you you get that gun? oh here take the safety off, There you go. Nice job. see you later.

you ain't right, but I guess you ain't wrong either.

Question: hand held PC, Exit, I seen pitched like a lob over head, I seen flung like a vollyball, To avoid burble hesitation I would suppose to pitch hard away from the body. what does anyone do, your prefrence and why.

[skreamer 1]

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I seen pitched like a lob over head, I seen flung like a vollyball, To avoid burble hesitation I would suppose to pitch hard away from the body.

If you pitch too violently you risk dropping a shoulder. I use a very well practiced wrist action.

[killen1970 0]

god love the ATL crew! I think they have the best way of finding a student that is "swithched on". Metallica t shirt or money for beer might be an even better indicator. Maybe make them read Penthouse letters or Hustlers beaver hunt!

[base311 0]

LMAO Tonight it was Gallery's Girl next Door. God I love the GND issue.... hot hunnies in nexta nuthin'..

Have Metallica T-Shirt; Will Travel. My next book title....

Laughing all the way to the tar pit...

Gardner

P.S Can you say WDI? That's Wind Drift Indicator for the uninitiated. Who wants to go first? Be my guest....

Every object is worthy of being someone's first jump. heh heh.

[base311 0]

A prior manuf., when asked what he was up to, used to say, "just shipped another loaded gun..."



Thank gawd for the safety,
-Gardner

[base311 0]

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Just out of curiousity, do you care at all how important base is to a person?

***(stuff snipped) "wonder if thats been jumped yet" everytime I look at a kinda high object.
I'm sure there must be some skydiver out there who is planning to BASE and is obsessed with persueing(spelling) that.
but your "obsessed" maybe different to another persons classing of obsessed

My general observation has been that - even given my relative early entry into the sport - most everything that immediately catches the eye has been jumped. Only the most obscure - or most difficult to access - is left for the taking. Even in BASE, there are always those who have gone before (many and often un-named or unknown), and hard they went. Even in BASE, there is little left for the taking (but obviously more than for the average joe).

God bless new construction,
-Gardner