What to look for in a BASE student?

[TomAiello 26]

To turn Sean's question on it's head:

What do you look for in a BASE student?


Since I get this question quite a bit (mostly from people wanting to get into my course), I'll start. In no particular order:

1) Someone who is "switched on". This means that they not only look at their environment, they consider it critically, and continuously. The actually evaluate what is happening around them and try to make decisions about it for themselves.

2) Someone who has put in the time to get prepared. Someone who has made the effort to go out and do some canopy training, make some CRW jumps, do skydives on gear that bears some resemblance to BASE gear. I really give a pretty strong preference to people with CRW experience.

3) Someone who has done their homework. They should have read almost everything that is available about BASE. If it's printed, or on the internet, they ought to have at least looked at it. I shouldn't have to teach them when to use which size PC--that's in a chart they should have downloaded, read (and memorized) a year and a half ago.

4) Someone who has asked questions, and is involved in a continuous learning process. Someone who has already started asking questions (from me or anyone else), is far more likely to keep learning after they are "off student status."

5) Someone who has audited a course. Someone who has taken the time and energy to actually follow along a BASE course before they could take one. I often give preference to people who have audited my past courses, because this (a) shows that they are committed to learning, and (b) has given me a chance to get to know them a bit (and hence evaluate them better).

6) Someone who has connected with their local BASE community. I dread finding out that I've given someone a loaded nylon flamethrower and sent them on their way. One way to hedge against this is to know that they've made real efforts to meet their local crew. This also gives them a source of immediate support for questions, as well as people to jump with.

7) Someone with an adult attitude. I look for people who have life experience that indicates they are unlikely to approach BASE recklessly. Experience at the high end of other outdoor activities is a big plus, just for the mindset it teaches. Someone who has already gone through their "young and reckless" phase is also far better prepared to approach BASE carefully. And, in all honesty, so is someone who has already been smacked pretty hard by poor decisions in some kind of outdoor sport. If someone has spent some hospital time, I know they understand that getting hurt really does hurt.


Looking at these criteria, I notice that I haven't put "X number of skydives" in there anywhere.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[JaapSuter 0]

Just out of curiousity, do you care at all how important base is to a person? Independent of how serious somebody approaches the sport, people participate with varying levels of passion. For some it's their life and blood and the only thing they think about when they're awake. Others participate in other sports, care about a family, or get the same amount of enjoyment from juggling five balls.

I'm always saddened when I meet hardcore skydivers who are missing out on so many other great things in life. However, maybe in base this is not such a bad thing considering how much more dangerous the sport is.

Apologies if this is a highjack, feel free to move or delete.

[TomAiello 26]

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Just out of curiousity, do you care at all how important base is to a person?

Not really. Since it's usually something they haven't done yet, I'd be very surprised to find someone who was obsessed with it.

I do think it's important to maintain some balance in your life, but I don't usually evaluate student applications like that. I do wonder if a certain amount of obsession, especially in the early stages, might not contribute to safety.

edit to add: I do look for people who have given some thought to where BASE fits into their life. So if it's the obsession, that's ok, and if it gets put into the mix with family, skydiving and bowling, that's ok too. Just as long as they've done some thought and evaluated how those things fit together.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[vandev 0]

Ok, i will give the perspective from the other side "wanting to base" but havent yet. I would whole hardedly agree with all of Toms points. I think it's pretty obvious that we all have our own inner deamons to satisfy and they all come for different reasons. I have been around skydiving a long time hense my low 600+ jump #'s and being around it 20 some odd years. Did in the military and years later got current again. I have always been into these sports.. Growing up rock climbing,surfing skateboarding, platform diving, Free diving , kiteboarding, anything that seemed to 'freaking Cool". If you grow up in states that provide a breeding ground for these sports , it's hard not to get involved. Hence my all of a sudden burining passion to base jump. i have been surrounded in the past with experianced base jumpers but it never came out and bit me in the ass. It was usally my obsevation to a antenna jump video or building jump as... your wacked.... Hence the not understanding the sport,equipment preperation and learning, the out sider see's this as a "Super Extreme activity" performed by crazy people... I know different now....hence the ask questions, read, research......I think it is also key to ground crew..actually see in person what it is really like....it looks great in the videos but is a hole lot different actually doing it. There is one thing watching a guy with a thousand base jumps wingsuiting Norway and another thing when your ass is tumbling unstable at exit at the same site with your 100 jumps...I bet it will all seem different than you thought it would be....
This is when you need to be as Tom Said,"switched on"....this awarness level is what will either save you or finish you. Like surfing or any other sport that requires a Hightend awarness level and to act like a machine when things are going wrong.... I will also go along with the smack assesment. It also all changes when you hammer in. I did in all my ventures including hooking and bouncing and living to do it another day. It makes a hell of a difference...You gain a hole new respect for what you are doing.....I would have to say that for me it's just on the "10 things i do before i die list"....To base Switz, Norway and Italy. The videos got to me. The actual flying aspect...the hike, the view...the outdoors and yes the thrill of doing something you feel fee......It's hard to really pin down but thats what i have come up with so far....I am 46 married, kids, mortage the hole package.....I have many decisions to make...ie. life insurance....could bounce....health insurance....could live threw the bounce....financial responsabities....bounced...lived... crippled....can't work to support family....then what.....Theres alot of things to think about besides just the jumping... It's not as simple as it seems. I could go to my FJC and get on the bridge and look down and the say" What the fuck am i doing"....You never know until you are there..I think that what Tom and other experienced base jumpers are doing will only make the sport better. I have learned more in the last month reading and listening to base jumpers in this forum than i have in the past 20 some odd years. So dont change anything.....This is good stuff..

Peace all....Chris

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[plowdirt 0]

home work??? a year and a half ago. i look to this forum for alot of info constantly, yea sometimes it's hard to even understand what your talking about, obviously the this 's and thats are for the better out come, but hardly ever why, why different pc's (as in condition location height of object) slider up slider down, yes i would figure opening speed.

But don't kid yourself you do have some info but alot has to do with big balls, and a mentor.

lets see where, where is that info compiled, I think it's locked in the heads of the people who are...

and some are so reluctant to share, Hell they won't even ask you to come out and watch. Knowing all to well you will share a roof top slot in the future.

You should have a thread where all you guru's talk about the do's and dont's (and don't bicker) and the big ??? WHY.


See you on the edge....

[nicknitro71 0]

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But don't kid yourself you do have some info but alot has to do with big balls, and a mentor

With too much balls, too little brain, and too little info even the best mentor can't keep you from the inevitable. Just my 0.02.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[outrager 6]

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What do you look for in a BASE student?

Big boobs ?

Sorry Tom, couldn't resist

bsbd!

Yuri.

[klapaucius 0]

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To turn Sean's question on it's head:

What do you look for in a BASE student?

What if someone thinks about BASE jumping in similar way many people commit themselves to marathon or triathlon. They decide that in addition to the achievements they had in life, they want to step-up a notch. To do BASE for high-end achievement, not adrenaline rush (included, I guess). Is this kind of rational, calculated, long-term motivation a positive factor?

So, would I "pre-qualify"?

> 1) Someone who is "switched on".

Subjective assessment - qualify. Analytical to the bone. Why 7 cells not 9? Why rotors behind buildings are different than behind cliffs. Why "line-mod". Why, why, why. BTW, I usually catch the bottle before it hits the ground

> 2) Someone who has put in the time to get prepared.

I'd commit as much time and effort as necessary,
to achieve the required canopy control, body awareness etc.

3) Someone who has done their homework.

How much homework is enough? Read "every single word" on the net etc..Thought it over and over. Thought about every every person on "the list".

4) Someone who has asked questions, and is involved in a continuous learning process.

In my life - yes.

5) Someone who has audited a course.

No.

6) Someone who has connected with their local BASE community.

See above

7) Someone with an adult attitude.

Does other life experience qualify? Commitement to education, work, family, friend, good cause, flying airplanes etc.?

Hurt? - busted back mountain-biking, had a few close calls in the mountains.


???

[TomAiello 26]

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lets see where, where is that info compiled...

The information I was referring to is all neatly compiled in a chart here, which I'd hope folks would have already found on their own.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[QuickDraw 0]

Quote

You should have a thread where all you guru's talk about the do's and dont's (and don't bicker) and the big ??? WHY.

Don't sweat it yet dude, I'm in the same position with the hands-on technical side,
you just have to read what you can, and stick to what you feel comfortable with knowledge-wise.

I've really only scratched at the surface meeting BASE jumpers around me,
but i know where i'm going, and i'll take my own sweet time getting there.

If i find out anything good, i'll let you know.

Anyway.. this forum is intended for the likes of us...

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[lifewithoutanet 0]

It seems that the obvious context of the post (and definitely replies) are centered around the student. But I think I'd find this thread of equal importance if I were a first-time mentor and was deciding whether or not to take on a protege. I'd have expectations of my student, for sure, but I'd have expectations of myself as well.
-C.

[TomAiello 26]

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...don't kid yourself...alot has to do with big balls...

When I had maybe 50 jumps, I went out to this place one of my friends knew about. It was a bridge, in a small town in southern Idaho. Reportedly, the police didn't mind BASE jumpers (an idea I found almost ludicrous, but which turned out to be true).

On the first day I was there, I met a bunch of jumpers who had come in from Portland, Oregon. One of them was a tall, thin chap with a funny accent. On a load that afternoon, I saw him do a jump that just looked purely insane to me. He had two of his friends hold his legs, dangle him over the edge of the bridge, and then drop him.

Riding the boat back to the packing area, I commented to him that he must have the biggest balls in the western hemisphere. His reply stuck with me.

He said "BASE jumping is about brains--not balls. If people jumped more with their brains, and less with their balls, there'd be a lot more of us still around."

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

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...why different pc's (as in condition location height of object) slider up slider down, yes i would figure opening speed.

Varying your PC size has a lot more to do with pack job deformation than with opening speed. The idea of sizing the PC is to get the appropriate PC for the airspeed you are travelling at. If your PC is too large, it rips the (freepacked) canopy apart on the way to line stretch, effectively destroying the pack job you spend so long laboring over. A small PC, as you correctly surmised, will have something of the opposite effect. The point of using smaller PC's as you gain airspeed is to keep the pack job in shape on the way to line stretch. This will actually yield faster openings (and more symmetric ones). So in some cases, a smaller PC (at higher airspeed) can actually yield a quicker opening.

Keep asking the why questions. They're very important.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

Quote

What if someone thinks about BASE jumping in similar way many people commit themselves to marathon or triathlon. They decide that in addition to the achievements they had in life, they want to step-up a notch. To do BASE for high-end achievement, not adrenaline rush (included, I guess). Is this kind of rational, calculated, long-term motivation a positive factor?

Definitely. It's rare to find people who are just looking for adrenaline rush sticking around very long. There's an awful lot more to this sport than that.

At this point, I think I'd probably be more likely to take on a student who had those kind of long term BASE goals than otherwise, but it's hard to form those goals when you haven't jumped yet, simply because you may not realize what the real achievements are.

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Does other life experience qualify? Commitement to education, work, family, friend, good cause, flying airplanes etc.?

Other life experience is always a big positive.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Sean621 0]

at long last this place is getting interesting...hey Tom...the reason for the x number of skydive issue is plain and simple...you cant BASE jump without canopy skills (well i guess you can but i hope you a)dont or b) survive uninjured long enough to learn said skills).

i would like to say im not a mentor,instructor,teacher, jedi knight or water walking son of god but if i were the qualities you have listed are there or there abouts...i would like to see them make a will,talk to their folks/friends/loved ones,be as clued up as they could possibly be and then start down the long and rocky road with a course of instuction in the states...the reason for this?Aside from the fact that the manufacturers are at the cutting edge of the technology and are the butt end of customer feedback taking a course in the states costs a lot of money and will for the less serious of the potential jumper out there be too big a hurdle to jump....

Aside from the normal reasons for trying to make people think before they start there is a second but darker reason..BASE jumping here in England/UK is getting to critical mass and to be honest i am not alone in thinking fook it...we dont need any more jumpers....its limited resources here...you want to join my club then earn your spurs buddy...anybody else feel like this??

http://www.extreme-on-demand.com

[K763 0]

Hi Tom...HI y'all... (Shotgun has rubbed off on me!)

Yes, good point Tom.

I'm amazed at how few people look at the pilot chute reference chart; not only new jumpers looking for education, but also current jumpers that have purchased new gear.

Recently a student and customer of ours called from Twin Falls for instructions on the Multi. I mentioned to him that the details were in his Owner's Manual, and he laughingly admitted he had never even opened his Owner's Manual. Funny, haha, like a pilot chute in tow or a broken friggin' leg.

READ VORACIOUSLY! EVEN DRY, TECHNICAL STUFF LIKE OWNER'S MANUALS AND REFERENCE CHARTS! As Tom said, it's all there if you'll only look for it.

Peace, y'alll...

K

[tfelber 0]

Hey Tom,

I was looking over that chart, which I had looked at previously with little relatedness, and it seems rather scewed compared to most of the jumping I see/hear about.

For instance, it recommends handheld to over 500 feet, yet I don't see this being practiced much, 250-300 seems like the more used cutoff altitude between HH and Stowed.

Does the chart follow your thoughts? Do you think it follows the current thoughts of the masses?

[JaapSuter 0]

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I was looking over that chart, which I had looked at previously with little relatedness, and it seems rather scewed compared to most of the jumping I see/hear about.

Two factors. First, the chart is relatively old, and as gear and knowledge improved, people starting smoking it lower and lower. Secondly, the chart includes the manufacturers liability safety margin. No manufacturer will ever recommend you freefall from 200 feet, even when they might think it's possible. That's because it's only possible for some individuals with the appropriate knowledge, training and skills. Manufacterers can't make that judgement call, so they have to err on the safe side.

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For instance, it recommends handheld to over 500 feet, yet I don't see this being practiced much, 250-300 seems like the more used cutoff altitude between HH and Stowed.

I have actually been contemplating about switching to a "slider down means hand-held" philosophy. It won't make me a very progressive base jumper, but if I'm having fun and being safe, then who cares? I've always liked hand-held jumps anyway, in a certain romantic historical base-jumping kind of way.

I do want to make a few more stowed jumps from the Potato bridge, but I wouldn't be surprised to see myself preferring hand-helds from then on.

Edited to add: Of course, sometimes going stowed is safer than going hand-held, for example when there is a sketchy climb to a launch point, or maybe when you take a running exit.

[NickDG 23]

>>deciding whether or not to take on a protege. I'd have expectations of my student, for sure, but I'd have expectations of myself as well.<<

That's an excellent point and it bears repeating. It's not enough to have excellent BASE skills; you also have to know how to pass on those skills in an effective way. This is a whole sub-set ability having nothing to do with BASE.

It's the reason so many have trouble with AFF certification courses in that other sport. They show up with the air skills but find it surprising so much if the course is based on effective teaching skills. I've seen many self destruct in these courses because they are struggling on the ground . . .

The whole Mentor thing has been a problem in BASE jumping since the very beginning. Before there were Mentors per say, people usually learned BASE from people they knew. How does a potential jumper seeing the adverts in SKYDIVING Magazine differentiate between Instruction? Especially when anyone with the money for a flashy color ad can call themselves a Mentor?

Years ago, when the sport was much smaller, we knew who was good at teaching and who wasn't. Now there is no way to keep track outside of the established courses with proven track records. If someone runs a killer ad, and it's someone no one knows, what can we say? It may be just perfectly fine, or maybe not.

Is it time for "Under-Cover" student?

One time years ago the USPA began hearing from experienced jumpers that during their travels some skydiving instruction they saw was beginning to get really shoddy. USPA came up with the idea to employ DZ investigators. These would be highly experienced Instructors who weren't the types that had their faces plastered all over PARACHUTIST every month. They could then present themselves at Drop Zone X-ray, sign up, and actually sit through the first jump course and jump.

I signed up right away, but as we looked deeper into it we realized it would cause more PR problems than anything else. And there wasn't a large enough spike in student injuries or fatalities to justify it.

Too bad, except for an occasional ass kicking in the parking lot if found out, I thought of how much fun it would be. Sometimes you could be "good" student and sometimes you could be "bad" student. I've taught skydiving so long I know what buttons to push to drive an Instructor right up the wall. I thought it would be interesting to see how far I could go before they wouldn't allow me to jump. (Or, LOL, maybe that is something we are better off not knowing).

In the end the USPA dropped the idea, but at least they were thinking.

What are we doing?

NickD BASE 194

[NickDG 23]

>>it seems rather scewed compared to most of the jumping I see/hear about.<<

We did the original version of that chart in the early nineties at BR. I believe it's only been updated once since then . . . and basically it was to take the skulls out I used to make, LOL.

It's up to every jumper to realize how fluid and ever changing this sport is. Anyone remember when almost no one went stowed at Bridge Day . . . ?

NickD BASE 194

[vandev 0]

Definitely. It's rare to find people who are just looking for adrenaline rush sticking around very long. There's an awful lot more to this sport than that.
***

Would this apply to the "guy" i wont use names....who ..and i read about his training....did the pakistan jump....and from the video i saw was tumbeling on his back...actually both of them.. the hole way down.... how they lived....."had to be Luck" a example of trying to do too much to soon....This is a sport that your progression has to flow and mature rather than churn and burn...It is definetly a brain not a balls sport....can anyone add to this....?

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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a example of trying to do too much to soon

Might be true for one of the guys, but I seem to remember the other having many years in sport. Can't substantiate this, but I think Nick could probably confirm or deny the facts. A quick Google probably could, too.

-C.

[Newtons2nd 0]

I am steadily accumulating jumps now with intentions of finding a course similar to yours (hoping for 200+ by then). I have a long list of accomplishments, education, life experience, life-flight rides etc...I am currently a semi-pro cyclist coming off of a superbike career blah blah blah

Here is what I don't understand--

I posted last week with a question about cameras, not so I could jump with a camera but so I could use it now in my other sports and have the knowledge of how it performs, and just generally get used to filming for my own education.

Well as you probably noticed, I was given shit for even asking, as if I am not qualified to ask about cameras. So no worries, I understand..

Yet I see these replies to my posting and most others (with jumps well over 1000), and yet half the postings I read make it clear that these "experienced" jumpers have no concept of physics or atmospheric science.

Why is this knowledge not a recommedation?

Maybe this IS why the mishaps are so frequent?

I know that I don't want to jump along side of somebody who has little or no education on those two matters.

I have seen first hand a half dozen deaths, and well over 100 accidents/injuries and nearly every one of them were "the best" anybody had seen.

Well were they the best or were they just getting lucky all of those years?

I have also seen some of the most educated in the adrenalin sports make it uninjured because they won't do it unless it is calculated first.

I guess this isn't really a question, just a comment.

I hope it doesn't offend anybody.

I see the book you recommend (Dennis Pagen I believe) and that has some good stuff in it, but there is still a great deal of physics and calculations that need to be made by somebody who is not with a person who does understand this.

How about the simple math to figure out how long it will take to reach a certain altitude based on a variable fall rate? Is it acceptable to just rely on past data and other's suggestions?

[mattsplat 0]

Hey I'm an excellent studant except in spelling. but I dont think that matters much here. I;m very much into the ethics of base meening the enviroment the community and the sport. I do not want to futher my learning by my self and risk injuring myself somebody else or the sport. so if there are any nj jumpers or recomendations please PM me.
thanks.

[KevinMcGuire 0]

Anyone remember when almost no one went stowed at Bridge Day . . . ?

NickD BASE 194