Injured jumper near Phoenix

[Keith178 0]

Thank you Kevin, I will.

[kleggo 145]

Keith
welcome back from Bush's folly.
I was happy to hear that you returned safely.

Stay in touch

Craig

kleggo(at)adelphi.net

[nicknitro71 0]

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Raven 218 I think, with a mesh slider up, 500' cliff.

Slider up on a 500' cliff with a Raven II

Heal soon!

Memento Audere Semper

903

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Slider up on a 500' cliff with a Raven II

Slider up on a 500' cliff? Forget the Raven II (which was obviously not the best choice), but slider up on a low cliff is just not smart. I'm now sending get well vibes to the injured jumper, but don't do that again!!!

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[KevinMcGuire 0]

Well first of all, Dave has been in the game for a long time, He has been using that set up for many years and doing so very effectively. The micro line allows for very rapid slider deployment and makes 3 second delays very comfortable. Especially on old bodys.
First time I saw him use that set up it worried me a bit but as I saw him use it more and more, it began to make more sense. Thats not to say that I would use that set up but it worked well for him.
It Used to be that everyone jumped Ravens or Cruiselites or pegs or what have you. My first 200 jumps where on Ravens. Now a days, everyone is jumping BASE specific canopys. That is not a bad thing, but what has worked for years is what one tends to stick with. For most of you, it will be no different. Some day, some young kid is going to look at your set up and shake his or her head wondering what the hell is wrong with you old fuckers
Mark my words

[nicknitro71 0]

I stated few times that Ravens make decent BASE canopies for something not too low.

The problem I see here is the use of a slider on a 500' cliff. It might have worked in the past; 32" PCs also have worked in the past for 2-3 secs delays...

Memento Audere Semper

903

[KevinMcGuire 0]

I jumped my ravens from as low as 180' many times with no ill effect so I don't totally agree with you. True Raven tend to dive out of the sky as a result of their steeper glide angle (compared to todays BASE specific canopys) but other than that, they do quite well.
If you had ever seen Daves set up in action you might think differently. As I said, the micro line allows for a VERY rapid slider deployment. I'm not saying it was the best set up but it worked well for him hundreds of times. The slider may have played a role in the off heading then again maybe it didn't. I was not there. Maybe Keith can shed some light on this
I guess what I'm saying is that Dave is a really nice guy and hes been around for a very long time and doing his own thing well all that time. I'd hate to see him get pig fucked DZ.com style by those who don't know him especially now that he is hurt.
Oh and by the way, 32"PC's never worked well for 2-3 second delays.

[Treejumps 0]

I hate to see anyone get hurt, especially on that cliff. Its a nasty one to bounce off of, and pretty difficult to get rescue too. I actually considered doing slider ups off of that, but never did. A 3 second delay would get you a lot further away from the wall, but any slider hang up would be ugly as the talus extends out a long way. Also, after a recent Perrine trip I noticed that my old Fox has a much more noticable snivel (on 3 sec delays) than it did 5 years ago. That little difference is all it would take to buy some rocks at SL.

Heal fast. I hope he didn't land on a barrel cactus.

[nicknitro71 0]

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Oh and by the way, 32"PC's never worked well for 2-3 second delays

I did not say it worked well, just that it worked

Hey Kevin I am not flaming anyone here and probably the guy has much more BASE experience than me. BUT, as usual we must learn from each other's mistakes no need to rreinvent the wheel in BASE.

I do believe his gear configuration was not adequate for the jump. I would have not made that jump slider up: Raven, Ace, Flik, or BJ.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Well I'm not so concerned about the injured person's use of their Raven. I'm more concerned about people jumping low cliffs slider up, that's all. Guys like you have way more BASE experience than I have (so I do listen to you), but I've always been under the impression that on heading performance isn't as good on slider up jumps, and then to add a low cliff to the mix (yes they get lower but 500' is still low), it just seems like it was an accident waiting to happen.

Once again, I'm sending get well vibes to the injured party. It's unfortunate that CNN got their noses in this accident as many of the things I heard them say compared to what people have said here is just not accurate. But then again, what was I expecting from the Whuffo media. Surely not some accurate news reporting. They would rather sensationalize a story (saying shit like his parachute didn't open and that he was jumping alone to name just a few) to up their ratings.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[TomAiello 26]

There are some old timers who swear by slider up, since it gives more time to correct an offheading while the slider descends (before the canopy begins moving forward). I'm not a proponent of that school, personally, but there you go.

Having variation in the gear, including the statistical outliers like this one, helps the gear to continue advancing and changing. In a way, we all ought to be thanking people who jump gear setups that are way out of the norm.

That said, I'd never recommend that anyone jump that setup. And I feel strongly that if you aren't already an advanced BASE jumper, you ought to leave gear experimentation to those who are. There are other things that will likely net you a bigger personal payoff on your jumps.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

All,

Be aware that this is (obviously) something of a media frenzy. Multiple sets of reporters are looking to get people to comment on it. Anything you post here could be used (or misused) in media reports.

Further, be aware that this incident is not connected to any particular dropzone, and that some in the media appear to be connecting it to a dropzone, with potential negative ramifications for that DZ. It would be best not to comment on any skydiving operations for this reason.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[JohnnyUtah 0]

I am not recommending Daves choice of gear, but I do understand what Kevin is talking about with the micro lines and slider configuration:

Im guessing most BASE jumpers have never BASE jumped (or seen BASE jumped) micro-lines on a large 7-cell. I made about 25 jumps on a Dagger 266 with micro-lines a few years ago. There is a big difference in the way a canopy opens with micro-lines. Basically it will slam the ever-living-hell out of you if you go 2 or more seconds without a slider. With a slider it still opens very fast, even if youre doing just a 2 second delay. Three second delays with the Dagger 266, with micro-lines, with a mesh slider produced basically an instant opening again and again with total consistency and good heading performance. While jumping that Dagger, I never worried about it sniveling.

I came to the conclusion that the drastic difference is because Dacron lines stretch some during opening shock whereas the micro-lines dont stretch much at all. Also, the slider moves down the micro-lines with very little to no resistance. I also wondered if the little bit of difference in the wind resistance (drag) of Dacron VS micro-line could be a factor.



I would never want to have micro lines on my own personal canopy because of how hard it opens with no slider. But, for someone that does use micro-lines, I totally understand why they would want a slider with a 3 second delay. I guess one reason someone might choose that gear configuration is if they didnt like slider down openings in the 2-4 second range but still wanted something that would consistently open quickly.

Think about this:
Youre jumping a wall big enough where you will be doing a 5 or 6 second delay.
Which set up is better?

Personally I would choose my canopy with Dacron lines, mainly because thats what Im use too. An experienced micro-line pilot may have an edge at this delay range............I dont know.

Have Fun, Don't Die!
Johnny Utah
My Website
email:johnny@johnnyutah.com

[460 0]

The micro lines seemed to have worked for him. Microlines have tradiationally been avoided since they don't stretch nearly as much as dacron. The lack of stretch can overstress specific regions of the canopy, and can in some cases enhance the asymmetry of the opening. I don't see any significant problem with any of his setup though. The only issue that stands out to me is protective gear that has a line snag potential. Much of this gear can be worn beneath the clothing. There are reasons why people are leary of wearing open hooks on their shoes or boots (death hooks) when jumping - parachute line snag potential.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[pBASEtobe 0]

Can anyone PM the name and address or just some contact info of the injured jumper. I'd like to start the tradition and pass onto him the BASE get-well carrot decked out with official injury logbook and everything.

Thanks.