wwarped 0 #26 July 12, 2005 QuoteAll normal methods to get them to change have failed. can you please elaborate? have you attended any NPS meetings? have you commented on proposed NPS rules? have you contacted your congressional delegation? have you circulated petitions amongst your friends & coworkers? have you met with anyone from "the other side" to learn their views? have you tried to incorporate their opinions in a proposal? have you participated in a peaceful, non-jumping protest? have you wandered a park discussing the issues with visitors AND staff? remember, no one in government really wants to do anything, or take responsibility. and none wish to do ANYTHING quickly... Thanks! DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base311 0 #27 July 12, 2005 QuotePlease explain to me: How can the NPS in Yosemite crack down any MORE than 100% unmitigated proscription of BASE jumping and 100% ingnoring the needs of BASE jumpers? All normal methods to get them to change have failed, and I would like to jump there legally in my lifetime, not my grandchildrens. Agreed on the first part; disagreed on the second. I'm curious which of the, "All normal methods..." you describe have actually been tried??? As far as I know, there has never been a unified congressional lobby for change, until now. As far as I know, no one - and no organization - has yet put forth a coordinated effort to employ the normal methods by which a citizen or group normally goes about effecting change: grassroots efforts to lobby congressional representatives; careful watch-dogging of agency movements and their actions to change rules and regulations in a direction NOT in our favor; putting pressure where pressure is necessary; availing ourselves to - and involving ourselves in - planning processes whereby we are included as a user group rather than excluded because of our absense or laxity; ultimately, there has never been an organized systematic and orchestrated plan of action. Sure, there have been a few attempts at change by what amount to extraordinary means. Namely, a civil disobedience jump gone wrong, a few defended court cases which resulted in still more confusion and muddied waters for everyone concerned... I'm sure the list goes on and on. As has already been mentioned, civil disobedience typically is a last-resort tactic that comes only after a long concerted effort to change things by normal means has failed. It could take a lifetime to reach a point before such civil disobedience would be considered effective and appropriate. Nevertheless, the proper channels have not been tried until now. These things take time and patience is truly a virtue in such regard. Arguably, we've waited entirely too long for our day to come. On the other hand, as a user group, we've been flailing about for a quarter century. Herding cats is never easy and, frankly, herding BASE jumpers is harder still. It is time to get organized and get on board. I believe one such group will rise to the challenge and be an organization for change that will eventually come; I'll leave it to everyone else to make that determination for themselves. Our resolve must be tempered with patience, and our actions must be carefully planned and our intentions sure. I know where I have placed my faith and trust, and I know where I and others are doing the difficult work to see success where others have failed. -Gardner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base570 1 #28 July 12, 2005 Gardner, just wondering if anyone who has sent the letters out from your site have received a response from anyone in the government yet. I sent mine and have not heard anything.... still waiting cya, Jason Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #29 July 12, 2005 Same here, no response, yet. I assume they might have a backlog of letters that they answer though.Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #30 July 12, 2005 I've received 2 responses. I know that several other people have, as well.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lifewithoutanet 0 #31 July 12, 2005 What's been the format of your responses? Phone call? Letter? Care to divulge the specifics of what they said? I ask because I know someone who got a Voicemail response to his inquiry once. -C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pBASEtobe 0 #32 July 12, 2005 Quotejust wondering if anyone who has sent the letters out from your site have received a response from anyone in the government yet. I received one response in the form of a generic letter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #33 July 12, 2005 I got a letter that was specifically tailored to respond to mine. I know this because my wife used the ABP letter system and got a "stock" letter. My ABP letter was a little more customized, and I got back a "stock" letter, then a week or so later, got another "customized" response (in which the term "BASE" was used, despite the fact I hadn't used it anywhere in my letters). It was still pretty much political yammering, but at least it was on-topic, and showed that someone had actually read the thing and composed a couple paragraphs just for me. I have seen one quite positive response, via letter, but as it was not my letter, the details aren't really mine to share. In general, it seems like the folks from less populous states are getting more personalized responses, which makes sense, I suppose.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tfelber 0 #34 July 12, 2005 I received a letter from the congressman I wrote regarding legalization of BASE jumping in NP's. He basically said it's illegal and this has been upheld in several court cases. He said he appreciated my passion and would consider my comments should this matter ever come before the House. I wrote this letter using the congressman's web page. It took less than 2 months to receive a response. Regarding the letters I wrote through the ABP, I have received no response. It's been almost 4 months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
op5e 0 #35 July 13, 2005 Instead of calling it a protest jump. Why not call it a record attempt or similar. At least it is not as confronting and you can always then call it a protest if that does not work. Once you have precedence it will be easier to get other permits. Another option is a funraising jump. You could try to put it in a context that they would sound like heartless souls to say no. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #36 July 13, 2005 Now someone is thinking....do a make a wish foundation chairty jump. Get corporate sponsers,famous people or casinos to raise money for the terminaly ill kids... everyone wins..... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
op5e 0 #37 July 13, 2005 Just to add. I beleive that if you do such a jump you really need to have the correct documentation to look like you are not just a bunch of yobbos. Keeping in mind try to avoid documenting in such a way you put your foot in it or look like collaberation, ask the lawyers. Make people sign weivers (even if you assign everyone a number). Also set rules and try your best to keep it safe. Some compromises could be made (like no aerials) so that the nps think you are making an effort. Of course things like making sure a first aid kit and someone trained is available etc.. You might want to consider some of this even if it is a protest jump. Might make it look better if they arrest you. Hard for them to say you were trying to harm yourself when you made every effort. Its all about perceptions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #38 July 13, 2005 QuoteInstead of calling it a protest jump. Why not call it a record attempt or similar. Because it's easier to get a special use permit when you invoke a 1st Amendment right. If you look at NPS guidelines, they have less wiggle room with regards to restricting free speech (although there is plenty of wiggle room regarding the "manner" of free speech). My wife is hotter than your wife. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #39 July 13, 2005 QuoteSome compromises could be made (like no aerials) so that the nps think you are making an effort. In the early 80's, people not abiding by these types of compromises was one of the problems. It might be easier to avoid such conflicts by not making any specific compromises at all, and instead saying something like "everyone promises to exercise their best judgment in regards to safety." A "no aerials" rule off a terminal wall is obviously just plain silly, and trying to get people to stick with it would be pretty much impossible.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #40 July 13, 2005 i think you guys are all wrong having that love forum chat or what ever..but hey if its all about making love to each other you can have it No im not jalous and i dont want to move to china,ill just have a chat about jumps to be made in the furture by myself get off each others nervs hug your self and lick your nipples it will make you guys feel much better PS. could i join just to make sure you dont speak bad about me now Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
