The No NPS Banner

[Donk 0]

Apparently Jason Bell is getting a little flack over the no NPS banner and stickers so I wanted to set the record straight...neither Jason Bell nor any of the other Bridge Day commission members had any idea the NO NPS banner was going to be raised behind him during the Saturday Night briefing or on the Holiday Inn floor Sunday morning.

I had planned an 8-way NPS protest jump for 3:01 on Saturday by dropping the banner over the rail and sending our 8-way off; but because of the winds, the 30 extra minutes, and "Staff discouragement" we decided not to do it and save that for some other "day"...like in a national park somewhere in California!!!

I really wanted everyone to see the banner and had planned to raise it during the "video festival winner" segment of the Saturday night show but when Jason starting talking about the NPS, the timing was to perfect to pass up. The crowd seemed to love it but I certainly did not want it to create Jason any more headaches than he already has piecing this event together.

So for the RECORD: The NO NPS stickers and Banners were created and handed about by me without Jason's consent. If you had any objections or complaints please contact me directly.

donk@kc.rr.com
(913) 908 - 3043

On a more positive note, BRIDGE 2005 was a riot. Long lines and train holds are tough to control and if you talk to people who have been doing Bridge day for years there have been many years where people waited in long lines all day for one Jump. Bridge Day is about first jumps, celebrating our sport, and partying with our comrades...

If you want to jump without lines, go to the Potato Bridge or get enough experience to get an invite to the Go Fast games.

Hugs and Kisses.

Donk

PS: I will post the video festival entries and winners when I get some time later this week.

[dmcoco84 5]

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On a more positive note, BRIDGE 2005 was a riot. Long lines and train holds are tough to control and if you talk to people who have been doing Bridge day for years there have been many years where people waited in long lines all day for one Jump. Bridge Day is about first jumps, celebrating our sport, and partying with our comrades...

If you want to jump without lines, go to the Potato Bridge or get enough experience to get an invite to the Go Fast games.

Very good point! But damn its just such a nice object its a shame to travel so far and spend the money to only get 1 or 2 jumps. At least 3 would have been nice.

[RhondaLea 4]

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On a more positive note, BRIDGE 2005 was a riot. Long lines and train holds are tough to control and if you talk to people who have been doing Bridge day for years there have been many years where people waited in long lines all day for one Jump. Bridge Day is about first jumps, celebrating our sport, and partying with our comrades...

If you want to jump without lines, go to the Potato Bridge or get enough experience to get an invite to the Go Fast games.

Very good point! But damn its just such a nice object its a shame to travel so far and spend the money to only get 1 or 2 jumps. At least 3 would have been nice.

You should have packed faster. The exit point went nearly dead with still a half hour of jumping time to go.

Edited to add: Donk was dead on in his comment. If you want to make a bunch of jumps, go to Twin Falls. BD is not about quantity.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[dmcoco84 5]

Hehe, I was packing fast! But a buddy wanted to get video from the landing area so that burned up some time. Didn't make my last jump till 2:30ish so it would have been close. I wasn't aware the line died. When I exited my second jump the line was really long still. I was thinking about doing an unpacked jump but it was way to windy.

Edited to add: I'll be at TF Memorial Day. Didn't have the money or the time last year.

In addition to my great jumps I wanted to say it was a pleasure meeting so many of you I talk to and see on the board. Just to name a few: Jaap, Nick DG (an honor), Jimmy H. and many more. And the APEX Crew! Jimmy, Todd, Marta and Trisha! You guys are awesome. See you Memorial Day.

[NickDG 23]

First off thanks all those who helped me get to Bridge Day. I'll never forget that kindness. I'll say I was a bit surprised when I saw the banner go up. I first thought, "Yikes, Jason?" Yet, I thought about it on the plane home, and you know what, I'm cool with it.

Earlier that day I'm huddled up with Mike Pelkey talking about his and Brian's talk later that night, and we discussed almost this same thing. Mike and Brian received some rough Ranger treatment back in 1966. Mike, now all caught up on the latest developments, wanted to say something about how unfair he thought the NPS is being. And I think I talked him out of it. I'm not so sure now I did the right thing.

Since the NPS took over the LZ it's been an extra layer of hassle for sure, but besides a few ugly confrontations at first, things settled down, and I suppose we had sort of a truce going. However, after the new fees they now want to impose, and something else I saw on the bridge Saturday, I say they've broken the truce.

I spent almost the whole day on top and throughout the afternoon worked the back media gate of the launch point. (Thanks for that RhondaLea, it made me useful). When the winds came up the Ranger walked over every fifteen minutes or so with his Radio Shack wind meter. I don't know what the magic number is, or even if there is a magic number, but every time he checked the wind he seemed really disappointed.

I didn't say anything to him the first time, but the second I said, "You know, it matters more what the wind is doing down there," and he nodded. The third time I told him, "Come on, it's getting better . . ." In any case I had the impression if the NPS could find a reason to halt the jumping they would. So the No-NPS banner is just us pushing back a little bit, and that's alright . . . and while Donk manned up for doing it, (good one, brother) what's done is done, so let's just enjoy the ride . . .

NickD BASE 194

[RhondaLea 4]

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I suppose we had sort of truce going.

Let's call it what it is, a cold war.

And although the basis of their apparent strength is rotten from the inside (i.e., the reg), they're still going to win if the base community continues to try to make nice with them while they continue to methodically undercut every effort to gain and retain legitimacy. Today it's bureaucratic creep; tomorrow it's stricter penalties for infractions of their illegitimate rules.

In plain English (this is for you, Faber), trying to work with NPS hasn't worked so far, so why does anyone expect it to work at some indeterminate time in the future?

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[wwarped 0]

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Let's call it what it is, a cold war.

nice!

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trying to work with NPS hasn't worked so far, so why does anyone expect it to work at some indeterminate time in the future?

well, what has proven successful?
open conflict?

I wonder...
for the longest time, the park service got it's way. they had a firm grasp. they did what they pleased. no one could tell them otherwise.

now with the attention from the CO congressman & the proposed re-write of their rules, might the NPS feel they have someone looking over their shoulder?

additional rules is a classic way to maintain the status quo and avoid looking arbitrary (as in the past). so the windmeter & such might be a sign of weakness, not strength.

edited to add:
who ever heard of the NPS extending the time window?
think it was THEIR idea?
think they liked it?
or is it likely the bowed to the will of the Govenor?
think they like conceding power to a state official?

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[martwald 0]

God almighty, what's wrong with America nowadays. You go to war in a foreign country on the pretence that you want to bring your version of freedom to that country, yet in your own country you can't even express your view freely without apologising afterwards or getting grief from the officials.

[nicknitro71 0]

I too was pleasantly surprised when I saw the sign.

NPS in short just don't get it.

NPS is a federal agency so they could not care less about the local economy. Yet the Major, the Governor and the two Senators of WV might be interested in knowing how much good BASE jumpers can do for the local economy if we were allowed to jump 365/year alike TF.

My wife is an economist so she can help me writing a little proposal to the four of them showing the numbers.

I know the NPS won't listen to BASE jumpers but if really money talks then things might get pushed from above. I guess it's worth the shot and we do have TF to be used as a model.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[Donk 0]

Just a quick follow up.

I am in no way apologizing for my position on the biased and unfair treatment of BASE jumpers by the NPS. Honestly, I wish we had done the actual protest jump instead of raising the banner behind Jason. I would have loved the opportunity to explain to the local and national press why we were being detained/arrested at the largest event in the country with major media coverage behind us.

Not to mention how horribly many of us were treated in the LZ this year by the "Marshals" and NPS officials. At one point I had all my gear in the stash bag hugging my in-laws after a jump (outside the "taped" LZ, in the far back corner by the vehicles) and got physically dragged out by a US Marshal. Needless to say I had words with him and thanks to JJ, who pulled me away, saved my from a more serious charge I am sure.

I stand firm on my position against the NPS and was pleased to hear the locals’ opinion of the NPS. I gave more stickers to local WV people than jumpers. They too are equally frustrated with the NPS for similar reasons and thanked us for standing up to them.

The time is here for a more formal protest… especially when the NPS starts asking for money to let us jump at Bridge Day (The feature attraction none the less). The NPS wants money to allow BASE at Bridge Day… only if it is a precedent that opens up all the parks to BASE not just one bridge for 6 hours. Ideally we should have the right to freely practice our sport without fees or contracts like any other outdoor enthusiast (climbers, mountain bikers, hang gliders, etc) in a National Park has.

But as this relates to Bridge Day; Jason works his tail off for months trying to bring Bridge Day together for us. I worked with him from Monday - Sunday this year and could not believe how much work it is. A simple “thank you” at the event does not come close to what he deserves for all his work pulling the event off.

In my opinion, the anti-NPS sentiment is right, we have the right to express our views, but bringing extra pain to Jason was not my intention. Bringing national exposure to the unfair, biased, monarchal control over BASE in National Parks is. I love going to Norway, Italy, and Switzerland for big wall fun but it is ridiculous that jumpers risk their lives, criminal records and huge financial penalties to exercise our sport in a National Park.

The day will come and we will get our forum. Lets spend less time “chatting” about this on these boards and get serious about a protest jump.

[Helmut 0]

The BANNER KICKED ASS!!!!! Your right its time to throw down the gauntlet. Seems like you can work the good cop (JB) bad cop (D) to get in their faces. With the state and local politicians involved and TAX revenue changes can be made. They all want money for their state and local governments and to be re-elected!!! Once again nice job on the banner!!!

[RhondaLea 4]

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edited to add:
who ever heard of the NPS extending the time window?
think it was THEIR idea?
think they liked it?
or is it likely the bowed to the will of the Govenor?
think they like conceding power to a state official?

Federal always trumps state...unless courtesy is involved.

Never underestimate the power of courtesy, but do not mistake it for power on the part of the recipient of that courtesy.

The NPS did not "bow to the will" of the Governor of the State of West Virginia. The NPS made a decision not to embarrass the Governor, even though he overstepped his authority when he unilaterally extended the jump window without first consulting with NPS.

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now with the attention from the CO congressman & the proposed re-write of their rules, might the NPS feel they have someone looking over their shoulder?

If you believe this is enough, run with it.

I've already stated my opinion of the rewrite of the regs, no need to repeat, and I'm very grateful for the congressman's interest, but I don't really believe that one congressman is going to win the day.

We'll see. Given the choice, I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[edge01 1]

One complaint I couln't make bridge day so how do I get some of those stkers.E

[gweeks 1]

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Federal always trumps state...unless courtesy is involved.

That's a pretty sweeping statement. While it's true in this context because the NPS owns the land, I think if we had a privately or state owned landing area the federal government would have no say about jumping activities whatsoever. Yay 10th amendment! Thoughts?

[RhondaLea 4]

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Federal always trumps state...unless courtesy is involved.

That's a pretty sweeping statement. While it's true in this context because the NPS owns the land, I think if we had a privately or state owned landing area the federal government would have no say about jumping activities whatsoever. Yay 10th amendment! Thoughts?

NPS owning the land is the only context and, in fact, the entirety of the issue.

If we had privately owned land, then we'd be dealing only with the state as to bridge access on a state-owned highway. (There was a time that this was the case, which is the only reason base continues at BD--we've been grandfathered, which legitimizes issuance of the permit in spite of the reg.)

Unfortunately, the latter case no longer applies, and we are stuck with NPS, and they are federal, and the landing area is federal land. Therefore, the governor of West Virginia has only posture, not standing, and if he is allowed the posturing, it is only at the pleasure of NPS.

This does not mean that the governor lacks the political clout to bring pressure to bear and that NPS will not be persuaded to yield to him. Happens all the time in all manner of state vs. federal conflict. But in a strictly legalistic sense, NPS has the force of law behind them, and the governor does not. So it's all about political wherewithal, and who feels the need to please whom at any given time.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[gweeks 1]

OK, we're on the same page. I thought you were talking about more than Bridge Day.

[RhondaLea 4]

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OK, we're on the same page. I thought you were talking about more than Bridge Day.

I'm talking about NRGB generally.

But I think everything I've said applies to any federally-owned land.

If the feds are not involved, then it's a state matter and state laws apply.

The push and pull between the two entities is all about politics and who knows whom right up until someone brings a lawsuit.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[wwarped 0]

But in a strictly legalistic sense, NPS has the force of law behind them, and the governor does not. So it's all about political wherewithal, and who feels the need to please whom at any given time.

[RhondaLea 4]

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But in a strictly legalistic sense, NPS has the force of law behind them, and the governor does not. So it's all about political wherewithal, and who feels the need to please whom at any given time.

I can't argue with your interpretation of legal realities. you know the law far better than I. the courts have provided little benefit.

Because the courts haven't been used to the best advantage.

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I'm thinking we must use the political angle. the more politicians we get on our side, the more pressure THEY can exert on the NPS. develop a new front in this war.

I'm thinking we must sue the shit out of NPS.

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heck, when else has BD got an extension?
schedule a photo op every year!

Jon Dragen has already died once, and another dead icon isn't really something I would wish for, even if it is politically expedient.

Just as an aside, Jon pulled me out of the water one year. I'm sorry I'll not see his laughing face again.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[jvair 0]

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Hehe, I was packing fast! But a buddy wanted to get video from the landing area so that burned up some time.


I seem to remember getting done packing the same time as you, got some landing footage, and was still back to the exit point before all the groups where done jumping! back even before you! if I remember correctly.

then we still stood in line for 2 hours to jump again dont blame long lines on me!

[wwarped 0]

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I'm thinking we must sue the shit out of NPS.

go for it!
(I just wish I knew of an example where it worked...)

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heck, when else has BD got an extension?
schedule a photo op every year!

Jon Dragen has already died once, and another dead icon isn't really something I would wish for, even if it is politically expedient.

whoa, slow down a bit...

in my part of the world, it doesn't take the death of an icon to draw a politician. I wish it didn't need to happen this year.

surely we can come up with a bit more, positive way to attract politicians?

oh, and anyone know why did the NPS let the last 2 jump after the extension expired?

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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oh, and anyone know why did the NPS let the last 2 jump after the extension expired?

I was standing right there. The reason is Jason Bell. I've got footage of the conversation. Whether the audio comes out because of the wind is another question.
-C.

[NickDG 23]

At one Bridge Day a guy got off a minute after the permit expired and I was jumpmastering. As he launched, hand held, a Ranger reached out to grab him but only caught his hand in the bridle. I knocked his hand away and another Ranger behind me put me in choke hold. I woke up wondering where I was and I'm surprised to find I was at Bridge Day . . .

NickD BASE 194

[MB38 0]

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At one Bridge Day a guy got off a minute after the permit expired and I was jumpmastering. As he launched, hand held, a Ranger reached out to grab him but only caught his hand in the bridle. I knocked his hand away and another Ranger behind me put me in choke hold. I woke up wondering where I was and I'm surprised to find I was at Bridge Day . . .

NickD BASE 194

Out of curiosity, did you ever get to chat with the Ranger again? I.E. was he ever made aware of what he could've done?

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[RhondaLea 4]

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surely we can come up with a bit more, positive way to attract politicians?

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rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

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