Container Idea

[piisfish 140]

Do I understand well ?? Do you want the canopy to inflate before linestretch ?? Migh be a miscomprehension from my side.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Bowie 0]

What about making a system like Multi and then free stoving the lines behind an extra side wall attached to the bottom of the container. that would make a no resistant opening and first releasing the lines when there is line stretch this would also prevent tension knot.

Bo Wienberg

vimeo.com/bowienberg

[TomAiello 26]

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Do I understand well ?? Do you want the canopy to inflate before linestretch ??

That's the way I read it too. 87SupraT can you clarify? Is this what you meant?

If the canopy inflates before line stretch the opening is going to be very, very hard. The jumper will hit the end of the lines and experience a very sudden deceleration. I'd guess that if repeated, this kind of thing will rapidly destroy gear and/or jumper. At the very least you're going to see people getting knocked unconscious by hard openings on deep slider down delays.

Further, a canopy inflating before line stretch will throw slack lines around, which could encourage tension knots.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mfnren 2]

What about 2 seperate tailpockets about container width apart?

[87SupraT 0]

Again I don't speak from experience, just thinking. I see what yall mean on the extra hard openings. I didn't mean fully inflated canopy, but maybe the center cell catching air already.

The slack in the lines could creat a whip like reaction and the jumper will be on the end of it, so it wouldn't be good.

So what really needs to happen, is some how create something that keeps the left and right riser line sets from twisting, but at the same time if one is loaded more than the other to compensate on the other. Sounds like body position will always be a factor. Or just quit packing off-heading pilot chute openings .

This dual tailpocket idea sounds interesting too

~Dale

[dploi 0]

Line twists are generally caused by body position after line stretch. Adding stows in the pack tray to hold the lines might actually increase the chance of line twists if the stows don't open't evenly.

[BetteSimon 0]

i would also say that whit the system you are thinking of there would be some packing issues I gues.. I'm not a BASE jumper, but I have seen some BASE rigs being packed, and the way I see it you make sure that the lines from both the left and right risers are stowed "straight" if you know what i mean, is because you can pull the container up against yourself when stowing the lines in the tailpocket.
In your system though as far as I can see you would have to do it the other way around, stowing the lines starting with the risers and therefor the left and the right lines seperate from eachother, you S folds or how you are planning on stowing the lines has to be pretty precise the same lenght to not get a unsymetrical opening... This adds some complications to the packjob as far as I can see, but maybe I'm wrong... Hope you get the point, my english isn't the best..

Simon

[DexterBase 1]

That is an interesting point. You'd have to either drag the canopy towards you while you stowed the lines, or move the container a bit at a time for each stow.

[TomAiello 26]

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That is an interesting point. You'd have to either drag the canopy towards you while you stowed the lines, or move the container a bit at a time for each stow.

That's what you do when you pack rounds. Didn't you pack my round, that one time?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[DexterBase 1]

Yeah, but How much can you mess up a round packjob?

[Treejumps 0]

*** "So what really needs to happen, is some how create something that keeps the left and right riser line sets from twisting"

You can keep them riser lines from twisting by being level when the canopy thingy starts to puff up.

Seriously, if your profile is correct you are a student with 2 skydives. What exactly are you doing theorizing about base gear designs when you don't even understand basic skydiving gear terms, much less how base gear actually functions.

You must crawl before you can run, grasshopper.

[JaapSuter 0]

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You must crawl before you can run, grasshopper.

But you don't have to run before you theorize about running. In fact, sometimes it can be beneficial to have never ran before so our minds are not yet clouded by the age-old tradition of having to put one foot in front of the other.

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You decide your own level of involvement.

And so he did.

[BetteSimon 0]

But you don't have to run before you theorize about running. In fact, sometimes it can be beneficial to have never ran before so our minds are not yet clouded by the age-old tradition of having to put one foot in front of the other.


Definently.... I think it's cool that you come up with these ideas, especially when some of the really experienced people in here, think that some of it actually could work.

Beeing a non BASE jumper myself, but very interrestet in BASE I like to read all the stuff in here, and I like to write question and replys to the stuff people says, if I think I have something seriously to say about the subject. And if he like me is very interrestet in BASE gear, and BASE jumping overall, I think its ccol... So keep'em ideas comming..

Simon

[87SupraT 0]

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You can keep them riser lines from twisting by being level when the canopy thingy starts to puff up.

Seriously, if your profile is correct you are a student with 2 skydives. What exactly are you doing theorizing about base gear designs when you don't even understand basic skydiving gear terms, much less how base gear actually functions.

You must crawl before you can run, grasshopper.

Don't let the jump number blind you. Just because I haven’t jumped a lot, doesn't mean I quit learning about it all. Body flight and parachuting has consumed me for the last year and a half. I have become obsessed with it all, why, I don't know. I haven’t jumped for about year so it can't be that, maybe just my fascination with it?

I am about to start working towards getting my rigging certification, and I pack parachutes every weekend on my local DZ. I have designed and built my own elliptical parachute, but I don't plan on jumping now, maybe sometime down the road when I have the experience and on a 3 parachute system. So I feel I have a "Basic understanding of skydiving gear".

I do plan on pursuing BASE, but much later on, after I have the canopy experience and the right mind set for it. I watch/analyze jump videos, just to help me better understand what/why/how something happened.

This idea about the container design came the other day, shared it with Jaap, and decided to post it to see what others thought. Would it work, not sure, that is why I ask. Like I said before, I don't speak from experience, I am asking here for feedback from experienced jumpers and more knowledgeable people.

Thanks for the support and feedback guys, I will let yall know if I think of anything worthwhile :).

Dale

~Dale

[TomAiello 26]

There are definitely things that you just can't learn from theory.

But there are also things that you don't pick up from any amount of practice.

I think that both (theory and practice) are pretty necessary.

87SupraT, just be sure that you get some practice in before you try to implement the theory. An internet forum is not a good place to actually learn to BASE jump.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Treejumps 0]

Its cool to come up with ideas, but in base a solid practical knowledge of gear is needed to design gear. Your fundamental assumptions about what causes 180's and offheadings are flawed. Lines do not just "twist up", they get twisted by the opening of the canopy, PC, or jumper. Keeping the lines eparate in the pack tray would have no positive, and likely many negative affects like increased friction knots and more hang up points.

By all means, jump all you can and learn all you can, it just sounds dangerous to me that someone with no experience is thinking about new gear designs when they have not even jumped what are considered gear standards.

Did you fly your elliptical? Where did you build it at? I am interested in building parachutes as well.

Cya.

[JaapSuter 0]

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Its cool to come up with ideas, but in base a solid practical knowledge of gear is needed to design gear.

It can help, but what is more crucial is a solid understanding of physics and engineering.

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Your fundamental assumptions about what causes 180's and offheadings are flawed. Lines do not just "twist up", they get twisted by the opening of the canopy, PC, or jumper.

Maybe his assumptions are wrong, maybe not. But people expose the flaws and in the process he (and potentially some other people including myself) learned something.

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Keeping the lines eparate in the pack tray would have no positive, and likely many negative affects like increased friction knots and more hang up points.

I think we're jumping to conclusions too early here. Can you explain why you think there would be increased chances of friction knots?

It is easily proven in a simple experiment that a disc resting on top of a single axis is easier to spin around than a disc resting on top of two pillars that have an outward force applied to them. Whether or not this idea translates to a parachuting environment is an interesting thought experiment at the very least.

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it just sounds dangerous to me that someone with no experience is thinking about new gear designs when they have not even jumped what are considered gear standards.

Why is this dangerous? I don't see anybody sewing up his design and test jumping it with a life human. In fact, 87SupraT himself mentioned the use of a test dummy. See it more like somebody throwing toys off a bridge for fun.

As BASE jumpers we should welcome these enthusiastic people with open arms, however inexperienced they may be. If their ideas are stupid, we can tell them politely. BASE is supposed to be a sport with open minded people willing to go against the society induced tradition that it is impossible and suicide to leap from fixed objects. I'm a little dissappointed to see ideas like this shot down so hostile. Why treat these ideas the same way society treats BASE?

Assuming that 87SupraT is going to be the next Leonardo Da Vinci would be silly, until he proves us wrong. But flat out denying there might not be a Leonardo Da Vinci among the many excited people that come up with funky ideas goes against the spirit of BASE.

[TomAiello 26]

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Its cool to come up with ideas, but in base a solid practical knowledge of gear is needed to design gear.

It can help, but what is more crucial is a solid understanding of physics and engineering.

I disagree. While both are going to be useful, I think that a practical knowledge of parachute rigging and BASE is going to be far more critical than any amount of physics and engineering background.

I would, in other words, rather have my BASE gear designed by Martin Tilley than Jean Potvin.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[JaapSuter 0]

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I would, in other words, rather have my BASE gear designed by Martin Tilley than Jean Potvin.

If I planned on jumping the gear in actual BASE environments, I absolutely agree.

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I disagree. While both are going to be useful, I think that a practical knowledge of parachute rigging and BASE is going to be far more critical than any amount of physics and engineering background.

Fair enough. What I'm trying to say is that there have been inventors that didn't necessarily have an established background or experience in a certain field and yet managed to come up with an invention that revolutionized the field. As BASE jumpers, we can be receptive to such ideas without compromising safety or losing respect for history and established standards and traditions.

[87SupraT 0]

[Reply] 87SupraT, just be sure that you get some practice in before you try to implement the theory. An internet forum is not a good place to actually learn to BASE jump.

[JaapSuter 0]

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because of my low number of jumps

Perhaps you might find more sympathy here if you explained what is stopping you from gaining more skydiving experience.

Be forewarned that a lack of money is a poor excuse. I knew a guy who worked thirty hours a week besides fulltime college to fund his passion and then rode his bicycle twenty miles to the neareast dropzone because he didn't have a car.

That's dedication...

[87SupraT 0]

Truthfully, I am still scared of the responsibility as soon as my foot leaves that plane. I got banged up on my 1st jump and broke my tailbone. Took the wind out of my sails, but I managed to make myself do a 2nd jump to see if it was for me. I live 5 hours from my dropzone during summer and december.

As a solution I have become a fulltime weekend packer and the DZ is keeping all the money I make in their account out there. It will keep me from impulsively buying something dumb I don't need :). Being out there alot helps to reassure myself to start again.

Dale

~Dale