What is more Dangerous?

[freakydiver 0]

Yah C don't get me wrong - I'm with you about 99 percent of the time with bike riding. I have alot of acquaintances that have no business riding a bike, or any motorized vehicle for that matter. That has always been one thing that most of my base acquaintances have impressed me with is their proactive approach to controlling the elements whereas in all honesty, I see that very little in the two wheeled world... One of the many reasons I don't ride anymore myself. I also have poor luck on motorized vehicles, I'd prefer to just get out and jump (-:

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[Hooknswoop 19]

I think I understand and agree with what you are trying to say. You have to have the attitude that everyone else is trying to kill you, doesn't see you, and if they do see you, won't yield anyway. You have to take it upon yourself to be prepared for anyone/everyone to cut you off, fail to yield, etc. If you have the attitude that it is your responsibility to avoid any and all accidents, you will be much more likely to do so than if you rely on others to do their fair share. Similar to flying a HP canopy. You take on the responsibility of avoiding collisions since slower canopies can;t get out of the way even if they see you coming.

Am I on-target?

Oh ya, BASE is much more dangerous.

Derek

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Am I on-target?

Yes Derek that is exactly what I'm trying to say. Oh and how's that pocket rocket of yours? In case you didn't hear, I'm up in Canadia (spelled this way on purpose) now and unless I come down to visit with my bike, we won't be doing any evening riding like we did earlier this year.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Yes Derek that is exactly what I'm trying to say.

The NBL has a safety policy where the first line was, "All accidents can be prevented". I don't think that is possible, but more can be prevented if you have that attitude. Same thing for bikes.

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Oh and how's that pocket rocket of yours?

Excellent. Got more gear (full set), and replaced the turn signals with LED's and chopped the rear fender.

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In case you didn't hear, I'm up in Canadia now and unless I come down to visit with my bike, we won't be doing any evening riding like we did earlier this year.

Ya, that sucks, you guys were great to ride with.

Derek

[dmcoco84 5]

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Give me some examples of incidents that you think aren't avoidable. If you let some other motorists collide with you (sure that motorists could have been at fault because they were not paying attention), you just didn't do everything in your power to avoid the collision.

Getting rear ended, someone runs a red light or stop sign. Changes lanes and you are in thier blind spot and then change lanes as a fast rate and you can't avoid.

You can't see everything at once. Not everything in preventable.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Getting rear ended

Yes very hard to avoid.

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someone runs a red light or stop sign.

You entered that intersection not paying attention to the traffic and not adjusting your speed and/or course based on the environment (did you even look to see what the other traffic was doing prior to entering the intersection?). Shit can still happen fast in this scenario, but an accident should not automatically be assumed if you're prepared for it.

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Changes lanes and you are in thier blind spot

What were you doing in their blind spot? This was your fault for being there and clearly shows that this rider did NOT know how to poisition themselves in traffic and likely felt they were too cool to take a safety course where they teach this sort of thing.

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change lanes as a fast rate and you can't avoid

This is where counter steering can save your life.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[j0nes 0]

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WTF? How the fuck am I being over confident here? Spare me your bullshit.

You're being overconfident in that you're telling me that there is no such thing as an unavoidable motorcycle accident.

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I'm telling people to be pro-active, to not let that other guy on the road kill you. Seek training, keep that training current. Once again you put yourself in that situation where you let the other guy try and kill you. This is not overconfidence and it's not all that difference from the training skydivers, BASE jumpers and pilots must routinely put themselves through.

Now you're changing your story because before you said there was no such thing as an unavodiable accident. Training is completely different story and I'll agree it's a good thing to have. However, there is a difference between preparedness and omnipotence.

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I never said riding a motorcycle was safe. But it's 1000 times more dangerous for those who don't stay current with their emergency procedures (let alone those who don't even have the faintest idea as to what to do in an emergency).

Just because you know what to do doesn't mean you'll have the time or space to do it. Practice doesn't always equal reailty and to ride around thinking no accident can happen to you because you're trained and prepared is just plain foolhardy.

[JulianMorgan 0]

lots of advice offered here.........I ride, but not at night any more......deer in the headlights means a lot more since living in the U.S. accidents happen....so they say...

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I never said riding a motorcycle was safe. Nor is any form of jumping and any form of aviation. Ah shit, life is not safe. It's a terminal condition. But where's the harm in trying to stay ahead of the machine/wing you are piloting. Be pro-active!!!

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[RhondaLea 4]

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Just because the light is green

Sorry, I wasn't clear. There was no light, it was a cut-through. We have a lot of four lane highways down here, and all of them have cut-throughs. People do u-turns and left turns and straight through the cut-through non-turns all the time. If one were to check each one, one would be required to stop every fifty feet. For example, the main highway from DeLand to Daytona has four lanes, regular cut-throughs and a speed limit of 65 miles per hour. It used to be that there was little traffic, so it wasn't a problem. Now, my town is booming, the roads are full, and Highway 92 is black death.

And, as I said, it wasn't that he hit the truck. The old guy in the truck didn't see him and broadsided him.

If every motorcycle accident were avoidable by the biker, then every motor vehicle accident would be avoidable. But sometimes it's just not possible to get out of the way.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[dmcoco84 5]

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Getting rear ended

Yes very hard to avoid.

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someone runs a red light or stop sign.

You entered that intersection not paying attention to the traffic and not adjusting your speed and/or course based on the environment (did you even look to see what the other traffic was doing prior to entering the intersection?). Shit can still happen fast in this scenario, but an accident should not automatically be assumed if you're prepared for it.

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Changes lanes and you are in thier blind spot

What were you doing in their blind spot? This was your fault for being there and clearly shows that this rider did NOT know how to poisition themselves in traffic and likely felt they were too cool to take a safety course where they teach this sort of thing.

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change lanes as a fast rate and you can't avoid

This is where counter steering can save your life.

If I'm going 45 through an interesection and I have a green light and someone is not paying attention going the same speed through a red light, I'm sorry but there isn't crap you can do. That is unrealistic if you think you could avoid that. If you are stopped and it changes green you should be paying attention then but not much you can do if it has been green.




For blindspot. What if you are passing. And they wanna change lanes. Kinda hard to avoid too.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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deer in the headlights means a lot more

Wild animals are definitely more unpredictable that some unattentive motorist and therefore scare me more. I can prepare for the motorist not paying attention, It's much harder to prepare for that animal playing chicken with me on some road at night.

Oh and I killed a ground hog earlier this summer on my motorcycle on a highway. I saw him/her and said "don't do it". But he/she did it anyway and all that happened to me was ... well nothing happened to me. I hardly felt that critter as I rode over it with my wheels (I surely wasn't about to put my safety on the line trying to avoid some animal). Of course a deer/moose/cow etc, etc, etc is a different story.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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If I'm going 45 through an interesection and I have a green light and someone is not paying attention going the same speed through a red light, I'm sorry but there isn't crap you can do. That is unrealistic if you think you could avoid that. If you are stopped and it changes green you should be paying attention then but not much you can do if it has been green.

Not true, you're in more control than what you think. Why did you enter that intersection? Weren't you looking at that other guy? Why didn't you slow down or speed up once you noticed they weren't paying attention? They were moving just as you were and that should have alerted you that maybe they weren't thinking what they were doing. Did you not think that it couldn't happen to you? If you're not prepared for this scenario each and everytime you enter an intersection, you will find yourself behind the power curve. Stay ahead of the machine and the environment you're in. At least when the shit hits the fan, you'll be prepared.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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If every motorcycle accident were avoidable by the biker, then every motor vehicle accident would be avoidable. But sometimes it's just not possible to get out of the way.

I know I'm taking a hard line with this "it's not an accident" stuff here. Yes the shit can hit the fan and sometimes it's just not going to be your day. But it's all about being pro-active. Don't hang out in the left lane or the left and/or middle track of the lane you're in when you see that opposing motorist slow down. Be prepared to slow down, speed up and turn (with counter steering techniques). It just may save your life. Be pro-active ... do your best to not let it happen to you.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[TomAiello 26]

dmcoco, sorry to lock your thread.

Everyone who wants to argue about what makes a good motorcycle rider, what is unsafe about it, what responsibilities a rider has, etc, etc, etc, please do so in the Bonfire, Speakers Corner, or perhaps a motorcycle forum.

Thanks!

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com