Pilotchute in front of canopy

[henrik.anderson 0]

We at our club have this problem with one of our Mavrones that the pilotchute falls in front of the canopy. This often happens with static line jumps but occasionally it does it when we do ordinary manually jumps.
Can anyone explain why this happens and what we should do about it?
Regards
/Henrik

[phoenixlpr 0]

AFAK. This is not a malfunction, at least not with canopies using students. It might look strange, but nothing to do with it.

[aerex 0]

Hi Henrik!

The same thing used to happen to me when I was a student. I flew a Manta and I also had this strange phenomena several times. This was at the end of the course so I believe that my falling position and canopy packing was quite stable and good! No trouble though, just annoying!

Blue skies...
/Johannes

[cabbage 0]

Am I the only one confused by the original post? I've never seen static line kit with a pilot chute.

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We're a' just machines for makin' shite.

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I was thinking the same. Maybe it's IAD?

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[masterrig 1]

I've seen this happen several times over the years at our DZ. Not just with Mantas or Maverones. After watching the videos, this 'phenomenon' seems to happen when the static-line student leaves the strut in a 'big arch' position. The static-line gets to full extension and the student falls back and their feet appear to come forward. The pilot-chute goes back and under the the canopy at the center cell on opening. It appears that the situations I have seen, were caused by 'body position'. The students landed un-eventfully. I could see the strong possibility of a 'bow-tie', should the pilot-chute fully inflate and stay inflated.

Chuck

[mr2mk1g 10]

My home DZ said they had many instances of it with spring loaded pilot chutes. They changed to a lighter weight metal spring and they decreaced in incidence.

It was something we were trained for and warned about as a minor mal which could potentially nessecitate a cutaway. We were warned to check controlability and make our decision on whether to stick with it or not asap. We were only to make as few as possible light turns as they can decrease the air pressure in the canopy and allow it to a bow tie.

I had one once on jump <10 ish. It half colapsed 2 cells (center and center left) causing a inbuilt LH turn. Little in the way of flare power on landing, faster than usual decent rate and a generally poo time. I had to let my instructor know which number rig so they could take a note of it to see if it was one with the new lighter spings being fazed in or one of the heavier ones.

Can't offer anything more helpful.

[MarkM 0]

Quote

Am I the only one confused by the original post? I've never seen static line kit with a pilot chute.

There are two SL deployment systems that I've seen. One is direct bag, where the SL is attached to the D bag. The other is pilot chute assist where the SL pulls out he pilot chute which then deploys the canopy.

[masterrig 1]

This is what our DZ teaches, also. We use Rigging Innovations: Telesis, student harness-containers with Skymaster 230's - 290's. The Spring-loaded, main pilot-chutes are the (standard) Rigging Innovations. I recall ths (pilot-chute over leading edge) thing happening back in the old 2-pin student system days, also. Quien sabe?

Chuck

[bch7773 0]

Quote

Am I the only one confused by the original post? I've never seen static line kit with a pilot chute.

some dropzones use a static line system that opens the container, and helps pull out the pilot chute as the student falls away. At my DZ we see a pilot chute over the front maybe a couple of times a year. its not a big problem on a big manta.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[headoverheels 333]

This sometimes used to happen to me some years ago, I think on my Raven3. I would just stall the canopy, which would flip the pilot chute to the back. On at least one occasion the pilot chute was around the center cell A line, so I just landed, no effect on such a large canopy.

[tiigra 0]

Quote

its not a big problem on a big manta.

I´ve seen a scary canopy collapse at low altitude on a manta with pilot chute in front. For her it became a big problem. Even if most canopies flies okey anyway, it´s something that might turn into a dangerous situation. So it´s a good idea to look for something that reduces the risk of having the pilot chute in front.

[linestretch 0]

the only time it happened to me was when I hooked up the parachute backward. Well, the pilot chute wasn't over the nose, it was just in front of me.

my pics & stuff!

[BlindBrick 0]

Quote

Am I the only one confused by the original post? I've never seen static line kit with a pilot chute.

Spring loaded PC's with a velcro tab where the bridle attches to the base of the PC allow you to switch betwwen S/L and Freefall withotu having to reconfigure the rig.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[jumper596 0]

Once on a student jump, my pilot chute fell over the front of the canopy, and somehow caught an A line, on the right side, causing a slow right turn. I compensated by using a little left toggle. On landing I flared unevenly, that is, more left toggle than right. Had a perfect stand up landing, and it never happened again.

[BASE813 0]

If I remember correctly there has been one fatality caused by this.

Someone may be able to confirm / correct me on this.

[BASE813 0]

Quote

Quote

Am I the only one confused by the original post? I've never seen static line kit with a pilot chute.

Spring loaded PC's with a velcro tab where the bridle attches to the base of the PC allow you to switch betwwen S/L and Freefall withotu having to reconfigure the rig.

-Blind

Can you explain? are you saying the SLPC is left on??

Also "velcro tab" are you suggesting that the PC attachment to the bridle is velcro??????????????

That sounds wrong.

[linestretch 0]

some rigs are set up so the spring loaded pilot chute has a velcro tab on the top. The s/l routes through the pin/ripcord, and with leaving the plane it opens the container. The very end of the s/l is velcro'd to the top of the pilot chute to aid in deploying...bla bla bla. The bonus here is that you can use the rig as either s/l or free fall. I'm sure I'm off a little in explaining, it's been years since I've seen one, or even packed one. The rig is packed as normal, but the s/l is velcro'd to the top of the pc, and then routed through the ripcord. Is this making sense? I'm a little confused.

Quote

Can you explain? are you saying the SLPC is left on??

Also "velcro tab" are you suggesting that the PC attachment to the bridle is velcro??????????????

That sounds wrong.

the SLPC is left on, the bag stays with the main......sound right?

my pics & stuff!

[BASE813 0]

Date Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL?
3/27/99 Cark, England MAL? 51 168 ?/?
Description: The deceased made an uneventful free fall descent, but at some stage after his main parachute had developed, a number of cells on the left hand side deflated and at approximately 500 ft, whilst his parachute was in a left turn, the left side of the parachute collapsed causing the parachute to spiral to the ground. No cause for the problems has been established. One serious possibility was that upon deploying his main parachute the pilot chute and bridle line may have dropped over the front of the parachute, causing the initial 'bowing' of the parachute. (Note: the parachute was seen to initially 'bow' on deployment, by the DZ controller, and then to clear). At some stage during the parachute descent the pilot chute could have caught around some of the left hand side rigging lines, causing the cells to close, (Note: one witness felt that during the descent the bridle line appeared to be short and off to one side of the parachute), and during the left turn, at approximately 500 ft, the restriction may have been responsible for the collapsing of the left side of the parachute." The parachute was fully inspected and found to be in good order and to within manufacturers tolerance.
Lessons:There just isn't enough information to definitively explain what happened in this situation. All I can advise is to be sure to check your canopy thoroughly up high... mild problems have a way of getting worse as time goes on.

[phoenixlpr 0]

What canopy was that?

[TimDave 0]

The description is a bit lengthy but accurate. The static line has the pin connected to it that closes the main container. Further down the static line (at the end) there is a piece of velcro that is hooked to a mate on the pilot chute. When the static line comes to full extension the pin is pulled and the pilot chute is aided in "launching" by the static line. This system is packed just as a spring loaded freefall rig except the container is closed with the pin on the static line instead of the ripcord. Now that mine is more lengthy than the one I am commenting on I will stop

[Godric 0]

I had a PC hanging over the front right hand side after a 90 degree turn on opening. I gently turned towards the DZ. The PC then inflated sharply pulling the 3 right hand cells down almost like folding the corner of a handkerchief down. I looked at the altimeter (1800"), imagined what would happen if the whole think folded up closer to the deck, cut away and the RSL deployed the reserve before I could. I have since pondered whether this was the right thing to do. This thread has convinced me that it probably was. It was certainly an interesting experience.

[airgord 1]

Dz I used to jump at had that same problem, first with Mantas and Mighty Macs and the same after changing over to Falcons, Static line or Aff ripcord deployments. Talon classics for containers.
They tried shorter bridles and that did not help much at all. It was cured probably inadvertantly by going to a throw out system with inflatable pilotchutes to forego the problems of transitioning to a 2 handle system. It was a concern but that scenario was part of the FJC, also part of the dirt dive of every jump.

[base283 0]

This means that the brake setting is too deep. the canopy starts backing up after deployment thus moving backwards in relationship to the PC. I am really surprised that no one who posted suspected it.
take care,
space