WeakMindedFool 0 #1 February 25, 2004 Does anyone have advice on packing methods for the Saber 2 to reduce the amount of end cell collapse on deployment?Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifics 0 #2 February 25, 2004 I fly a Sabre2 170 loaded at 1:1, the only time I have ever had end cell closer was when I was seeing where my stall point is. So I can't help ya, sorry... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shivon 0 #3 February 25, 2004 I would also be interested to see if there are any techniques which can help prevent this. I have a friend who is on a Sabre2 170 loaded at 1.2:1, and he has repeated end cell closures (no particular side), with the side dictating the direction of the turn. Usually a 90 or 180. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #4 February 25, 2004 maybe packing as the manufacturer recommends would help ?? which technique is used ? what loading ?? is it really disturbing ? are the cells really collapsed, or not inflated/under pressure yet ??scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #5 February 25, 2004 if I were you, I'd be happy with what you have. I take it the opening are generally soft...right? That's the only time I get them, and am usually happy to have it. It's usually not a problem, unless you can't keep them inflated.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deurich2003 0 #6 February 25, 2004 Yup...my sabre 2 150 opens nice and soft when I have end cell closure. I like it much better than a "snap" in the saddle. One tug on the rears and I've got 9 full above me. Never Give up! Never Surrender! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #7 February 25, 2004 to what I think due to the description, it's just that the canpoy is not fully in pressure. No big deal, as explained, little input on the toggles and here you go...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
INSANEDADDY 0 #8 February 25, 2004 I just got my new sabre 2 170 and put 4 jumps on it. I have noticed the end cells not inflating on opening. No big deal just pull the rear risors down and they inflate and the slider comes right down. You dont't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when.......You can only decide how you're going to live........NOW. -BASE 1605 Night BASE 227 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skytash 0 #9 February 25, 2004 I have a Sabre2 120 which also often has end-cell closures. When I asked a rigger what may help end cell closure, she asked what canopy it was and when I replied a sabre2, her answer was 'a re-design' She explained that the end cells have less re-enforcement tape on them and so they tend to take longer to inflate or something to that effect. I am happy to stand corrected by a rigger or PD! I've just learned to live with it. tashDon't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeakMindedFool 0 #10 February 25, 2004 Quotemaybe packing as the manufacturer recommends would help ?? which technique is used ? Pro Pack Quotewhat loading ?? 1.35 Quoteis it really disturbing ? not really...but attenetion to detail and all that. If I could get it to open well it would make me happy. But soft is better if this is the only price. Quoteare the cells really collapsed, or not inflated/under pressure yet ?? Oh yeah, they are really collapsed.Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philly51 0 #11 February 25, 2004 I've put 200+ jumps on my Sabre 2 190 and have had end cell closure on every one. Openings are great, but the 90 deg turns were disturbing at first. Talked to riggers and to PD and was told that the closure was do to its design. As the other responses indicated, slight riser and/or toggle input and they open right away. Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, Shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heims 0 #12 February 25, 2004 I jump a Sabre2 135 with a wingloading of .96 and have over 350 jumps on it. I used to have problems with closed end cells and my slider staying up, but when I was in DeLand, I talked with and got some packing tips from John LeBlanc and Rikster Powell. Unfortunately, seeing these minor changes in person is probably better than trying to write them out, but I'll try my best. BTW None of these are major adjustments. In fact they may seem like Duh?, but I found my openings improved dramatically when I started to pay more attention to the little details. Using the manufacture recommended pro-pack (BIG Surprise, huh?), I first made sure my pack job was very neat. (When I watched Rikster pack, it actually looked like the picture in the manual!) When I clear my stabilizers, I leave them out to the side and let them lay toward the nose when I wrap the tail around. (I've seen people wrap the stabilizers in the opposite direction.) I pay extra attention to the smallest one, making sure the D line attached to it stays clear of the other lines (it always liked to move on me ). I also make sure that my nose is symmetrical and exposed. For about a dozen jumps, I even opened the nose (I think Rikster was the one who suggested I try this) by opening the center cell and taking the four on each side slightly away from the center. (It certainly sped up my openings, but I have since found it isn't necessary.) I only roll the tail enough times to keep the canopy under control as I lay it down. I try to get all the air out of the canopy before I start to cocoon it (John suggested that using one roll to create the cocoon rather than a bunch of little tucks can help prevent me from messing with my neat pack job). Continue (as usual) to keep it neat and under control into the bag and be sure to leave enough line out and Voila . . . Also keep in mind, the Sabre2 is designed to open slower (Thank God), so give it a little time. I found that I was in such a rush to have that full canopy above my head that I wasn't giving it enough time to let it finish opening on its own. (I had gotten used to the openings on the old Sabre. ) I hope this helps, but if you still need advice I would HIGHLY recommend talking to PD. Their customer service has been five star plus. I was extremely impressed that John and Rikster took the time to help me when I visited DeLand and any time I've had a question, PD always does an excellent job either over the phone or via email answering it (and prompt too). Sorry so long. Blue skies, Sherri Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #13 February 25, 2004 I jump a Sabre2 210 loaded at 1.1:1 and I have no end cell closure issues at all. I pro-pack and leave the nose hanging in the middle. I dont push it in. I dont spread it out. I dont do anything to it at all. I have exellent openings 600-700 ft and on heading. Occasionally off heading by 10 - 15 degrees at the most. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeakMindedFool 0 #14 February 26, 2004 Thank you for the tips! I'll definitely be giving them a try. My rig is in for a repack for a week so I hvae to wait. I'll tell ya how it goes!Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #15 February 27, 2004 I'll lend you mine...that would really stir it up, wouldn't it? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeakMindedFool 0 #16 February 27, 2004 QuoteI'll lend you mine...that would really stir it up, wouldn't it? I can handle it...what would that be 2.1 to 1?Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 0 #17 February 27, 2004 Hi, I fly a Sabre2 135 loaded at 1:2. In 200 jumps, I had only once an end cell collapse. I do a standard pro pack, and don't roll anything. By the way, the 3 Sabre2 135 and 170 we fly in La Reunion do a 180 degree u-turn at the end of each opening. Any pack or body position tip ? Laurent, autrefois sur l'ile de La Reunion http://perso.wanadoo.fr/windsurf/skydive Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #18 February 29, 2004 Jumped a Sabre2 190 on Friday...never been under one of those before. End cells were collapsed on opening, too (nice gentle open, though! Wish I could help, but the DZO packed it so I have no idea what they did...and as I said, the opening and end cell closure wasn't scary at all. -My landing...well, that is another story! ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #19 May 3, 2004 QuoteJumped a Sabre2 190 on Friday...never been under one of those before. End cells were collapsed on opening, too (nice gentle open, though! Wish I could help, but the DZO packed it so I have no idea what they did...and as I said, the opening and end cell closure wasn't scary at all. -My landing...well, that is another story! Did you jump a Sabre2 190, or Tom's Hornet 190? (which we all know is similar to a Sabre2.) Part of why I'm asking is I'm searching these forums for help about how to stop the deployment end-cell closure on my Hornet 190. For anyone who has not had this lovely experience, I describe it as "the opening is fine, and about the time the opening feels complete and the slider comes down, the canopy makes a hard turn to one side or the other, for ~90, 180, or even 360 degrees." I have decided the way I know that a toggle didn't just fire during deployment is that a fired toggle would start the turn more gently*. (*based on full-flight simulation; may not accurately simulate this problem at opening.) Pulling both rear risers or waiting both seem to fix the closure after it has happened. I've been experimenting with different pack jobs to try and fix it (understanding that what I may be fixing is subtle details in my pack job, not the canopy), but it's beginning to look like I either need to learn to fly the opening or I need to pucker up and live with it. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #20 May 14, 2004 It was a Sabre2; I jumped it in Texas.~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #21 May 14, 2004 My sabre2 usually turns at the end of the opening too. Really hasn't bothered me much. But on my last jump I did have a toggle come unstowed, and at first I thought it was a normal opening. When the turn continued, I looked up expecting to see a closed end cell but the canopy looked normal. Then the spin got fast and I realized it must be a toggle. But yeah, the turn started off very gentle. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisD 0 #22 September 2, 2012 I'm glad for this thread...I'm a newbi renting gear and each opening has had both fully collapsed, on heading and nice and soft compared to my old 230. I thought it was me...After letting go of the risers on opening, I just pull down the brakes for a second, no turns at all. More issues with the different slider collapsing cords...can't pull em with gloves on. thanks all who have posted here...It's very reassuring to read all of your comments!But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #23 September 2, 2012 QuoteDoes anyone have advice on packing methods for the Saber 2 to reduce the amount of end cell collapse on deployment? http://www.performancedesigns.com/pdzone/videos_endcellclosure.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5.samadhi 0 #24 September 4, 2012 it probably means your brake lines are out of trim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #25 September 4, 2012 Quoteit probably means your brake lines are out of trim Please do explain. This I have to hear."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
