Tuning Shallow Brake Settings

[JaapSuter 0]

Hello,

how many people here have spend any time tuning their shallow brake settings (SBS)?

I was just perusing the BASE fatality list and noticed that many fatal cliffstrikes happened on slider up jumps. While most succesful terminal jumps give you enough separation from the cliff, a properly tuned SBS could improve your chances on subterminal jumps, or potential early deployments when going unstable.

When I had my DBS installed, I installed another one in between my DBS and original SBS. I originally intended to use the middle one for slider down bridge jumps on which I wanted more forward speed on opening, but I ended up using it for my slider up skydives (and two BASE jumps) and noticed significantly less forward speed on opening,compared to the original setting.

Brake setting tuning seems often only referred to in the context of DBS and slider down jumps. Any experienced jumpers with thoughts on SBS tuning?

Jaap Suter

[vandev 0]

finally .... a realy great post..... maybe even save someones ass someday.......

""finally leaving the third grade..... " playgerized from Kev M....

Thanks Jaap.... Chris

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[TomAiello 26]

I tune both my shallow and deep brakes.

My experience has been that you generall need to tune 2 different shallow brake settings. One is for generally sub-terminal slider up, and one (slightly deeper) can be used for terminal slider up. This means that if you tune your SBS out of a plane, you can often set it too deep for a subterminal slider up jump, and experience an opening stall.

If you read through some of the old ABA forum posts, you can find a very good post by Jason F. in which he discusses his thoughts and experiences with the variances between the optimal brake setting for terminal and sub-terminal slider up deployments. I'm too lazy to dig it up right now, but if anyone finds it, can you post a link here?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Faber 0]

i also have a sub 200ft shallow brake setting.. if its simmilar to your slider up brakes i dunno..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[JaapSuter 0]

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I also have a sub 200ft shallow brake setting. If it's similar to your slider up brakes, I don't know...

Yeah, that's why I originally intended to use that middle brake setting for. And it's still what I use on our local 180 footer. But ultimately it's what I started using for slider up jumps as well, pretty much dropping my third most shallow setting.

[Faber 0]

The few jumps i made slider up i used that shallow brake aswell,if it were good or bad? i cant say them sliders scare me and i had closed eyes from exit to lz all the time..

or in another way i dont know sh!t about slider up BASE,from what i felt it were ok/good but as im not experienced in that area you shouldnt use my answer to mucch more than a bad written joke

Oh did i mention im a house owner now how cool is that.. i has 48m2 packing area sad thing is that even as its mine i dont get it before 16juni..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[wwarped 0]

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Oh did i mention im a house owner now how cool is that.. i has 48m2 packing area sad thing is that even as its mine i dont get it before 16juni..

congrats!

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[460 0]

my deep brake settings seem to work consistently very well on every jump i do - very low, low, medium, high, and terminal.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[JaapSuter 0]

You use the same setting regardless of whether your lines go through the slider grommets or not?

[blitzkrieg 0]

actually, i do that too. almost every jump to date... DBS, regardless of slider up or down.

no problems so far.

[JaapSuter 0]

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actually, i do that too. almost every jump to date... DBS, regardless of slider up or down.

It seems to me that either your LRM slider-down openings give you too much forward speed, or your slider-up openings must result in a deployment stall.

Routing your steering lines through the slider grommets has a significant impact on how much you pull the tail down with a given brake-setting. I find it hard to believe you can succesfully use one and the same setting for both types of jumps.

I've used my DBS on terminal skydives to test it out. I was definitely opening in a stall.

[blitzkrieg 0]

you're probably correct. most likely i could just make a slightly deeper setting for slider down. but as it stands, they work for now. someday when i'm bored (and not in Iraq), maybe i'll try out this "tuning" you speak of. til then i'll jump downwind.

[TomAiello 26]

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you're probably correct. most likely i could just make a slightly deeper setting for slider down. but as it stands, they work for now. someday when i'm bored (and not in Iraq), maybe i'll try out this "tuning" you speak of. til then i'll jump downwind.

I don't think Jaap is necessarily blessed with an abundance of objects good for downwind jumps. Cliffs, for example, translate tailwinds into rotoring headwinds and downdrafts on the face itself.

P.S. Why wait? If you can get Iraq BASE, I think you'll be able to claim #1, and also prove yourself the hardest BASE jumper since Dead Steve.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[460 0]

This is exactly correct. If I was cliff jumping all the time instead of antenna jumping, I would tune my brake settings.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[tfelber 0]

Currently I only have one break setting. I've done one slider-up BASE jump from 1200' off a 1800' A. I've also done several jumps from a plane/balloon with it. I haven't noticed any adverse behavior.

New Years Eve I did a cross-country H&P and found I could pull my toggles a good 12 inches past the current break setting without inducing a stall. Which tells me I could greatly slow my opening forward speed by adding another brake setting. The problem I have is making a change like this without any real place to test it.

What would be a good way to test this and how deep should I start? I've had no problems so far, but I haven't opened up facing a wall either.

[TomAiello 26]

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What would be a good way to test this and how deep should I start?

I'd start at the place you found by pulling the toggles down. Create a setting above and below that by 2 or 3 inches, and then come out to Twin for a weekend and make a dozen or so test jumps.

Be warned that you cannot find the brake setting for a vented canopy simply by pulling the toggles down to find the stall point and going a bit below that. That used to work on unvented canopies, but on the vented ones it seems to find a point that results in undesirable opening backsurge a fair percentage of the time. If you have a chance to watch one of the ABA compilations, you can see a nice shot of Liv backsurging into a fire lookout, and understand why this isn't likely to be much fun.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[tfelber 0]

Thanks for the info Tom. That was my plan and my concern. I don't think I will make it to TF before my next trip to Moab and was wondering if there were any other somewhat safe testing methods.

BTW, I am jumping a vented Flik 293 so the note about the vented characteristics is appreciated.

How much distance do people usually have between their Normal and deep settings? On vented Fliks?

[TomAiello 26]

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How much distance do people usually have between their Normal and deep settings? On vented Fliks?

Back when BR put 2 factory settings on, the "standard" that they had worked out was 4 inches between deep and shallow.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[nicknitro71 0]

Jaap this is a very interesting topic.

I am of the idea that if a non-vented canopy opens without going into a stall with slider up and DBS then the setting is too shallow.

As for the SBS...There is one thing to keep in mind. On slider up jumps, it is possible to correct the heading while the slider is still descending. If a too deep SBS is used, this correction can cause the canopy to stall at least until the slider is all way down leaving more slack to the break lines but this defeats the purpose of trying to correct the heading as soon as possible.

Also a too deep SBS can be more of an issue in heading characteristics than a too shallow SBS in slider up jumps.

I am with you that a properly tuned SBS can be a life saver. I am thinking about the ISTW where the ~6 sec FF does not leave you much time for a big separation. A 180 there can make the day very interesting.

Bottom line is that I think it is much harder to tune in the SBS than the DBS...

Memento Audere Semper

903

[blitzkrieg 0]

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P.S. Why wait? If you can get Iraq BASE, I think you'll be able to claim #1, and also prove yourself the hardest BASE jumper since Dead Steve.

it would be a terrific feat, no doubt. but where i'm at, there's not so much as a hill as far as Earths go. i'm trying to limit my travels, as things blowing up around me i consider to be "not cool".

[flydive 0]

I was up in Camp V___ last week for the first time... there staring me in the face about 2 miles from the runway was an approx 1000' A... inside the wire! Hmmm...

[outrager 6]

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I am with you that a properly tuned SBS can be a life saver. I am thinking about the ISTW where the ~6 sec FF does not leave you much time for a big separation. A 180 there can make the day very interesting.

Hmm... at ISTW a properly executed 6 to 7sec FF should put you so far from the wall that you will splash in before you touch the rock. Track people, track, god damn it!!!

Opening close to an object while jumping slider-up is a mortal sin. Why risk a strike when it can be entirely avoided by launching and tracking???

I prefer to use the regular shallow slider-up brake settings. They allow for an immediate and radical control input without stalling a canopy or loosing too much altitude.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[nicknitro71 0]

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Hmm... at ISTW a properly executed 6 to 7sec FF should put you so far from the wall that you will splash in before you touch the rock. Track people, track, god damn it!!!

NOICE

I am with you that with a solid launch and a good track the separation will be there.

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Opening close to an object while jumping slider-up is a mortal sin. Why risk a strike when it can be entirely avoided by launching and tracking???

People do multiple ways off the ISTW doing funky exits, playing around, pulling higher, and such and this ends up in not much separation...the why? You know why

Memento Audere Semper

903

[TomAiello 26]

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People do multiple ways off the ISTW doing funky exits, playing around, pulling higher, and such and this ends up in not much separation...the why? You know why

That site is sensitive enough (since accidents shut down the access to the village below) that it's probably not a good place to be playing around with funky tricks. Much better to run down the road to ITW for that sort of monkey business.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com