freeatlast 0 #1 March 15, 2006 **** I have copied this across form the burning objects thread because i felt it might get lost at the bottom of 70 odd replies .... **** Here's just my 0.02c on the current situation ... Firstly it's almost impossible to maintain rules in an unregulated sport. There is a certain degree of self regulation which used to be more effective because of the very limited choices that existed to a potential newbie looking at starting base (it was relatively easy to control their access to information / tuition and equipment). Nowadays information (objects / technical info etc) is easier to obtain and instruction and equipment is easier to obtain. So the "old" system of self regulation is increasingly under pressure from those who would ignore / abuse the system or those with perhaps a commercial or other interest. The options left seem to be either:- DIRECT ACTION - which includes the suspension of access to equipment of prevention of access to an object (perhaps due to mobility issues such as broken limbs) .... Or INDIRECT ACTION which is the more difficult option but involves groups of all those people who maybe affected by all the negative effects of these un-educated / headstrong jumpers (often who are learning without guidance) ... Grouping together and taking a collective responsibility to try and educate those that are following along this path. Perhaps prospective new jumpers on a commercial course could have to produce a reference from a local jumper prepared to take responsibility for the new jumper - this would also only work if those current jumpers within an area also took an active responsibility and interest in those wishing to learn ... It would be no longer possible for someone to say "well thanks for all my tuition but i do not feel able to be responsible for another person" but would instead put the onus on the current jumpers to support the locals who wish to teach and train. Options include 1. To try and govern by force - which is difficult both morally and effectively 2. To try and govern by influence to show by example and leadership the path that is recommended so all involved in the sport have a standard to try and achieve. 3. To accept the status quo and drift through this situation with no ability to determine the outcome - often with a great deal of ineffectual bitching and self congratulation 4 To try and wash your hands of the situation - although eventually the sum of everyone else's actions will eventually effect you 5 Move to NZ - it's a great country .... ;-) One thing i think everyone will agree with is that the situation will not just simply go away and perhaps it is time for the whole community to try and find a simple set of arrangements that will safe-guard the future if the sport for the next generations, because as much as we owe those that blazed a path before us, perhaps it is our responsibility to ensure a future for those who follow .... One thing that is certain .... those who are forced into a postion where force seems the only option are generally not the type of people who wish to inflict harm randomly on innocents but are often simply normal, rational individuals who are passionate about our sport who have often simply run out of options and would happily consider any viable alternative that can be presented .... Perhaps a wiser person than me can suggest a reasonable and effective alternative to the simple method of controlling access to sites and equipment .... Now i'm off to try and re-pack before my head hurts too much .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgechurchill 0 #2 March 15, 2006 So the "old" system of self regulation is increasingly under pressure from those who would ignore / abuse the system or those with perhaps a commercial or other interest. ----------------------------------------------------------- Errrm.... like when you ignored advice and decided to jump a difficult building when you had 7 jumps and then fucked it up... Georgehttp://georgechurchill.blogspot.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dantheman 0 #3 March 15, 2006 Nice one, Gorgeous. Dan-the-Man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeatlast 0 #4 March 15, 2006 Exactly ... I am one of the people who trained originally by doing a FJC without someone to mentor me afterwards ... I am also human and have made a few mistakes ... I take it you have never made a mistake then ??? I also am not sure what mentioning my past errors has to do with helping sort out the future situation ???? My post is more aimed at how things might improve rather than kicking over past mistakes ... Perhaps you have the solution then george ???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgechurchill 0 #5 March 15, 2006 I take it you have never made a mistake then ??? --------------------------------------------------------- I once went to fart and followed through, on my first day in my new job. I also am not sure what mentioning my past errors has to do with helping sort out the future situation ???? ---------------------------------------------------------- I thought it was a case of Pot calling the kettle black My post is more aimed at how things might improve rather than kicking over past mistakes ... Perhaps you have the solution then george ???? -------------------------------------------------------- No not really, just thought i would stir it up a bit... Ghttp://georgechurchill.blogspot.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeatlast 0 #6 March 16, 2006 lol ... don't worry about the follow through - everyone does at some point !!!! As for my errors - i think i'm a perfect case of why it would have helped to have some sort of system .... As for stirring it ... lol ... life would be boring if people didn't stir it up... Hope all's well with you ... James Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabre210 0 #7 March 16, 2006 Hi James I can see what you're saying, but alas any system is only as good as the people involved in it. I believe FJC's do stress that the course is just the start, the concrete foundations on which to build, and that ideally, personal supervision and mentoring is the way forward for many many jumps before you can safely go out and do your own thing. The problem is that having a few hundred BASE jumps and a few years in the sport doesn't instantly qualify you to mentor. The ability to teach well is a skill only a few possess, irrespective of their years in the sport. Equally, no matter how good the teacher is, if the student isn't prepared to listen to their advice then you may as well not bother. Some students are enrolling on courses and upon returning are then faced with the hard slap of reality that a local mentor is not their undeniable birth right, but in fact an honour. They feel somehow that existing jumpers have an absolute duty to take them on and show them the sites. This is not the case, although it might often be beneficial for them to do so. It amazes me when i read posts by people looking to get into BASE or having just completed their course accusing BASE jumpers of being insular and elitist. I really have to laugh at that. Again, like it's their god given right to be invited with open arms, unquestioningly, into a group which is based fundamentally on trust. Like doing a few jumps on their course is a fast track to gaining this trust. It is not. BASE is one of the most esoteric pastimes/sports/activities there is. Like a circle of magicians, we keep our secrets and techniques amongst us, because if they fall into the wrong hands, everyone finds out how we do it and then the gig is up. If you want site info, you have to earn it. You have to reciprocate, at the very least you have to be trusted with it. That is something that takes time to build up. The problem is many people want it all, and they want it now and they're not prepared to earn it or wait for it. BASE for those on the go. A McBASE drive thru. But like McDonalds, it's insipid, bland, tasteless and invariably leaves you unsatisfied. Pioneers before us have ALREADY made BASE accessible to newbies and i for one am eternally grateful for that gift. Without these guys we'd all HAVE to be sitting behind sewing machines, modifying our gear for the job, designing new stuff and learning new ways of "how not to do things". I'm guessing less than 1% of those now jumping (myself included) would rise to this task and learn the rigging skills necessary. That is truly elitist. So if the price now being paid by newbies is the slight frustration of not getting it all on a plate when they return from their courses, maybe having to wait many months until a mentor becomes available, or having to take it very slowly, then I'd say that's a very small price indeed. ian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base689 0 #8 March 16, 2006 > Equally, no matter how good the teacher is, if the student isn't prepared to listen to their advice then you may as well not bother. Exactly. If the "new wonder" is a GoG (Gift-of-God= a gift that God sent to mankind to spread and share the sport of BASE among ALL whuffos), no matter how good/talented/precise the teacher is, the Gift-of-God, as soon as the have the minimal (but really MINIMAL) skills/knowledge to barely survive, they do what they have to do: being in mission on God's behalf, they need to spread and share and take to knowledge the sport of BASE to ALL the whuffos in the world, and for this purposte they do things as: 1) jump in daylight (yeah, the video is WAY better) 2) jump with stadium crowds underneath the object (why to spread the sport of BASE only among FEW people?) 3) jump unjumpable objects (my mentors are sissies/soft cocks, not having the balls to jump a site like this) 4) do as instructors to others "new-wonders" (and possibly future GoG (well, why limit the GoG in mission on God's behalf to only the few of us?)) 5) jump with front winds (because the parachute opens better) 6) to share their fantastic BASE stories with whuffo friends at the bar (hey, I was alone in that jump, if I don't tell about it to my whuffo friends, how can mankind come to know about my fantastic activities?) 7) other similar "good stuff" > They feel somehow that existing jumpers have an absolute duty to take them on and show them the sites. This is not the case, although it might often be beneficial for them to do so. Very well said indeed. > It amazes me when i read posts by people looking to get into BASE or having just completed their course accusing BASE jumpers of being insular and elitist. I wonder why people/newbies guess that we are bloody fucking bastards that keep things for themselves?!?!?!? No guess: WE ARE THAT!!!! > You have to reciprocate, at the very least you have to be trusted with it. That is something that takes time to build up. Another very well said point. > So if the price now being paid by newbies is the slight frustration of not getting it all on a plate when they return from their courses, maybe having to wait many months until a mentor becomes available, or having to take it very slowly, then I'd say that's a very small price indeed. Again, very well said Now, we have "only" to gain trust from more experienced BASE jumpers (and pick up the right equipment and train properly and so on...). ONCE (=1980's), they had "also" to invent the equipment and the techniques and whatever else needed to be invented Stay safe out there Blue Skies and Soft Walls BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
