Restrictive devices during packing.

[vid666 0]

While packing the rig yesterday, and subsequently stowing the PC - I am still amazed at WHY would anybody feel a restrictive aid is a necessity. I don't have that many jumps, but most of them have been with a 46 or 42 stowed (at least till exit point), a few with a 38 - and I have never felt the need to restrict the PC prior to putting it in the BOC - in fact, seeing a few people do it (clamps only) - it felt like an unnecessary overkill. Though using large clamps while stuffing the PC in would make it absolutely Darwinian fate if one goes in with it. ( in other words forgetting a LARGE clamp is not something anybody with an ounce of common sense should do)

not judging, just venting, it's a shame to loose another person ...

[mtnlion667 0]

Tools can make it neater. And unless you have a sorcerer,
i think we all need to pack a canopy we are sure will perform.
I agree w/using tools that are impossible to miss. ie: Bridle to tie the lines in the center during packing and my favorite, The drawstring from my stuff sack helps me form my pud while packing the PC. Now my exit point paranoia involves my bridle to canopy attachment and wether or not i remembered the larkshead after the last roll over.

[nicrussell 0]

I agree. I have yet to use a 'tool' to pack my pc. Nothing against those who do/have, but i see no reason to use a tool. I can make (show) a nice, clean, big grab out of a 42, 46, and 48 (actually I dont stow a 48 so...). And a handle (ex or internal) on a 38 or less, there is no need. I guess I just dont get it.

[Faber 0]

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how many of those 1000 make a person less stupid for dying because of it?

dude show some respect, i would say the same in case you died on your 11th BASEjump which i rember were a skiBASE...

I think its wrong judging people like that. as people has said there can be loads of reassons why this happened all we can agree is that it shouldnt have happened..
But calling the person or any person stupied as they has died is just not showing any respect for the person.

I do agree its a stupied mistake but dont judge a person you dont know.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Tenshi 0]

Yes.

You people keep repeating how much respect you have for this guy's parents yet you cant refrain from summing up every goddamn thing he did wrong in the past, dragging in the mentor etc. All in the name of education and future reference...

Who are you kidding?

[JaapSuter 0]

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i would say the same in case you died on your 11th BASEjump which i rember were a skiBASE...

And so you should have...

[Faber 0]

i think you misunderstood what i meant..

I wouldnt allow any to call you stupied from that,in case you died ofcourse..Its called respect to the dead..
That i agree it were a stupied mistake Paul did also i agree that your 11.th jump also were silly but i respect you to make the choice your self. in case it went wrong i wouldnt call you stupied but deafently would say that it shouldnt have happened as i say about Pauls Accsident.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 26]

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...how much respect...

I will disrespect the hell out of each and every one of my brothers on the List if doing so will keep any others from joining them.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Tenshi 0]

I will disrespect the hell out of each and every one of my brothers on the List if doing so will keep any others from joining them.

Edit. you know what...nevermind. I really have no business telling you people what to do. If you ask me...it's no longer about saving lives, but about having your opinions heard. Saving lives could have been done in 3 posts. But I realize I'm doing just what I'm accusing (well...that's a bit harsh but still) some of you of, so my apologies and I'll keep the rest to myself.

[JaapSuter 0]

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i think you misunderstood what i meant.

I actually don't, since I believe we have vastly different opinions on this matter.

I also think that there is a difference between making a rigging error of this magnitude or being overconfident in a particular skillset. The former is a mechanical process that can be executed perfectly if given proper diligence. The latter has a knack to it. Few people will ever be forced to pack a pilotchute in split seconds. Many people will some day be forced to avoid an object strike in the same time.

I don't have more respect for a dead person than I did during the last moments he or she was alive, save to avoid hurting other people's feelings. But this is a BASE forum after all.

[JaapSuter 0]

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If you ask me...it's no longer about saving lives, but about having your opinions heard.

I won't disagree with you, but there is more to it than that. Don't forget the impact a BASE fatality can have. I don't mean on family and friends, because it's blatantly obvious any incident causes tremendous amounts of pain. Judgement belongs to family and friends in this case.

The impact I am talking about is the impact to the sport and people's perception of it. I wouldn't be surprised if several UK jumpers have to go through more painful discussions with loved ones to explain why yet another BASE jumper has died. Have you told your parents you want to BASE jump Tenshi? Believe me, these are difficult conversations.

The list of problems that can kill in BASE is long and not every item on the list is a checkbox. But those that are ought to be avoided at all cost. If I do some day die on a BASE jump, it'll be my fault and responsibility regardless of what caused it. But please, I hope it wasn't because I forgot to attach my bridle to my canopy, because I forgot to rig up my three rings correctly, or because I forgot to do up my chest-strap.

Blue skies, black death...

[Luke 0]

You and Faber are so close and so far apart that it's funny.

Following a recent fatality at an object I can see from my house I planned to execute the practice Jaap requests on his demise. I didn't know the cause of the fatality, only the identity of the fatality and his mentor, neither of which came as any surprise. I was very angry and disappointed.

When it came to it, I was standing on that big old blood stain and I was overwhelmed by the sense of loss of a fellow jumper, pure and simple. The bottle of beer his mates left him was still there, in full view. The local residents there would normally steal anything not bolted down.

One of my most valued friends uses a "restrictive device during packing". I have given him shit from every angle for a long time over it. He is a competent packer and an experienced jumper. We reached a truce on the subject a long time ago: I won't hassle him any more about it, but I have his full permission to call him all the names under the sun on the internet and in private if he goes in due to it.

And I will. If that wanker goes in like that, I will take a dump on his spot.

I agonised before posting all the shortcomings (http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2143130#2143130) (that I knew of) of fatality #94. My only concern was his family: they have no need to learn of his bad decision making.

I spoke to my wife and best friend of 15yrs and she said that in the event of my death, she would want my fatality discussed in absolute and complete detail. Maybe my situation is unique in that she's known me since I was a teenager and is under no illusion as to what kind of fuckwittery I am capable of on rare occasion, but she stressed that her feelings on this matter must not be spared.

[Faber 0]

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I don't have more respect for a dead person than I did during the last moments he or she was alive save to avoid hurting other people's feelings.

I dont ask you to change your mind.But as you i also heard but never meet the guy. I also has my oppinions about his rigging erro and his approach to the sports but this dosnt mean that i feel the need on dissing him,his family or freinds on the internet.Thouse left behind dont need to hear your oppinion like that,In fact Pauls family has taken this better than many familyes has done.. their only request durring Pauls death were that we should learn and dont dublicate erros,have fun while jumping and take care of each other.. all you did were telling somthing that dont change anything,besides hurting peoples feelings.

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But this is a BASE forum after all.

So calling dead people stupied is going to help others?
sorry dude i cant see your point,if your oppinion is that people making mistakes and dying from them no matter how bad a rigging erro or risk mannegement they did then i think you should reconsider what BASE stands for..
You for all i thourght understanded that BASE aint about judging people but about fredom and happy memoryes.That all of us needs to make dessisions and either live or die whith thouse..
You and i can have oppinions about an incedent but cant tell why the person made his or her dessision..

I might go in later tonite on a solo i probaly dont,but many people will think if it happens that i were careless going out solo.You still gonna stand up and call me stupied then? If so i might need to tell my parents who i think would post here asking for help to understand...

As said we all do our dessisions.You and i need to respect people to that.that we think it might wasnt the best idea we can say off public,or dissuss how we can avoid stuff like that in the furture..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[skypuppy 1]

fuckwittery

Hey! That's a cool word! can I start using that?

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[hookitt 1]

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You for all i thourght understanded that BASE aint about judging people but about fredom and happy memoryes

BASE is about the human desire to fly and following through with it. The rest is up to you.

Don't make your equipment fail by a pointless error and chances are, there are a lot more memories to be had.

That's not judging. That's common sense.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Faber 0]

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That's not judging. That's common sense.

but dissing the deads is pointless.

I do agree it were a stupied mistake,but i dont see the reasson to call most of our fallen brothers and sisters for stupied. most of them werent they just eiter made a stupied mistake or had a bad day.

btw.

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the human desire to fly

i has no desire to learn to fly,i rather get the close groundrush

Did Chad tell ya that i made a vid of our trip?
Theres a huge place were you were arround.
Sadly Chad didnt tell if i could make copyes of it yet so i cant ship you oneWill do so soon as he has told what that need to be reedited etc.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber