Tree Rigging

[JaapSuter 0]

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...probably even to the point where it is at least on par with the Gargoyle

Very interesting.

Hey Lonnie, is there anybody in BC with a recent FX that I can get in touch with? I'd like to take a look at one. And do you guys have a pricelist? I happen to be shopping around for a container (since my previous one is stuck on a wall) and it would save me some tax- or import-dollars if I could order Canadian. Plus, it never hurts to support my fatherland economically.

[TomAiello 26]

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...The Gargoyle is a similar type of design but closes right over left, you just can't close it the other way.

Are you certain of this?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[nicknitro71 0]

I took few pics.

You can see that the flap goes in quite a bit and again it ain't that soft; one layer of thick ballistic nylon, one of parapack, and one of type 12 webbing.

You can also see the possible snagging point I mentioned.

By the way I personally know of one incident of a PC in tow in skydiving because a container was closed left-right causing the sharp snag point. Unlikely anything is going to happen if you close that way but last time I checked I only had one tarp on by back while BASE

Memento Audere Semper

903

[nicknitro71 0]

Oh,

The Gargoyle last I checked closes left then right.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[pocbase 0]

The Gargoyle last I checked closes left then right.

mmmmhja, right over left.
You guys got me worried so i went to the baserigs website. It closes right over left and the bridle tucks under the left flap. Now, does that mean i have an inbuilt defect? The gromet seems low enough not to tuck it the way you have shown in the pics under the right flap. Thanks for the pics though, pretty helpful. Ok going to jump my favorite 'e' now but this thread has left me a little worried.
later
poc

[980 0]

OK, here's my pics

the one where I bend the cover flap shows the shape of the stiffener inside, as I only bend back the unstiffened part

there's a tab sewn around the bridle slack between the pins and this gets tucked into a little pocket between the pins

my loops are long in these pics

[pocbase 0]

ok, it was too windy to jump off the cliff.
my buddy was still busy packing when i got to his house. Tom i started second guessing myself after your post but now i am absolutely certain you can't close the Gargoyle left over right. There's just no way on earth unless they build them differently for us South Africans, you know being in the southern hemisphere and driving on the left hand side and all...
The Gargoyle is an unbelievable piece of equipment. The attention to detail is amazing and this is consistent on all 6 containers i have seen so far. There's just no cutting corners. And that's leading to the only bit of criticism i would have on it is the delivery time. Two people I know waited almost 6 months for their containers to arrive. Then again, that's probably 'cos the whole world wants one. Well there's that and the fact that their pc's are real crap. I had wanted one for a long time and scored a luck with a friend who traded one with less than 10 jumps on it.
I still have a Perigee Pro, and although it still looks beautiful when packed after 150 jumps or so, there are still a few twitches. For example the pin cover flap is hot knived at the top and bottom leaving two nice pieces of burnt nylon right next to the bridle. I have seen this on the french zak as well. Also the back straps are connected within the lift web as opposed to wrapping around the lift web. All these things that cut production time simply don't occur with the Gargoyle.
Any way, this is turning into a personal gear review and i am veering completely off the original subject.
Nicknitro, your rig looks awesome dude and with my experience (158 jumps), i am not in a position to give any rigging advice. I am sorry if i seemed to be criticising, just the idea of a stiffener in the pin cover flap makes total sense to me.
later
poc

The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win!
Enfin j'ai trouvé:
Bieeeen

[katzurki 0]

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Well there's that and the fact that their pc's are real crap.

Ehhh, care to elaborate just a bit please?

[pocbase 0]

Well, first when you get them, the mesh is so stiff you can't even stow a 42. Then after some time the msh goes all floppy.
Then the mesh used on their av's doesn't seem like it would have any effect at all, it's pretty much like using f111.
I did 99 jumps with an av 42 from Asylum and just replaced it on principle because it was just about in the same condition as when i bought it.

The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win!
Enfin j'ai trouvé:
Bieeeen

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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Then the mesh used on their av's doesn't seem like it would have any effect at all, it's pretty much like using f111.

Would you mind elaborating on that? You are talking about the mesh used on the vent at the apex of the PC, right? I fail to understand how that mesh could not have an effect. It allows air to pass through the apex of the PC which is the whole intention.

Otherwise, I've never been anything but highly impressed w/ the quality of Asylum's gear. Did you raise these concerns to Martin? I've never been anything but impressed w/ his customer service, either.

-C.

[pocbase 0]

There is a misunderstanding. In that statement I was talking about the morpheus pc's. The mesh on the apex is way to dense, or thin and added to that is the placement of a morpheus logo on the apex. to me it just wouldn't work, although this is an opinion and i havn't seen anyone jump a morpheus av yet.

As for the 99 jumps with the Asylum av, I changed it for another Asylum 42 av simply because i wouldn't do more than 100 jumps with any given pc. The pc was still in excellent condition and i intend to keep buying pc's from Asylum.

The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win!
Enfin j'ai trouvé:
Bieeeen

[lifewithoutanet 0]

Ah...I see now. Sorry I read that wrong. Missed the context from the posts above.
Do you have a pic of a Morpheus PC w/ the patch on the apex? I'd like to see the layout of the vents around that patch...
-C.

[pocbase 0]

Just go to baserigs.com there is a pic of the av they sell

[katzurki 0]

Here's a pic for you.

That gripper is heavy-ish cordura, the mesh is like that used on small mesh sliders.

[Kinaa 0]

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The Gargoyle last I checked closes left then right.

mmmmhja, right over left.
You guys got me worried so i went to the baserigs website. It closes right over left and the bridle tucks under the left flap. Now, does that mean i have an inbuilt defect? The gromet seems low enough not to tuck it the way you have shown in the pics under the right flap. Thanks for the pics though, pretty helpful. Ok going to jump my favorite 'e' now but this thread has left me a little worried.
later
poc

Actually, "left then right" is same as the "right over left" cos:
When you are closing left side flap, then right side flap what you are getting is that you vill end with right side flap over left side flap.
You guys speaking abouth sam thing.

[pocbase 0]

UUUUUh!
No the sam thing is 980, he is also South African but was talking about the Odyssey.
I was just saying from the beginning that the gargoyle closes right over left and nicknitro pointed out that it 's first the left flap and then the right.
But thanks for following the posts and pointing this out to us, your contribution was real helpful.
poc

[avenfoto 0]

ahh yes... the bloody car crash rig.... see you round..

[PeteS 0]

I have to disagree with you about the "backstraps" construction between the two containers. As a master rigger who changes harness sizes ALOT, the wraparound/ Javelin style lateral part of the harness is in my opinion about the easiest to construct. There is way more work in the Perigee style lateral,I believe to the end of making the bottom of the container more "snagproof". As for strength, some skydiving rigs used to have a 500 lb. buckle to adjust harness size at this part of the harness.If your harness fits properly, you should never even pop a stitch regardless of what type harness you have.

[pocbase 0]

Point taken.
The Gargoyle does have a nice corner at the bottom for the bridle to get stuck in.
It was Piers, a s.a. master rigger who died in a plane crash in Florida who told me this. His opinion was that the wraparound was stronger, but that it took longer to build. Some skydiving gear manufacturers took shortcuts by hotkniving the webbing instead of wrapping it. On the wraparound you then have 2 layers of type 7 and 2 layers of type 8. The perigee seems to have a single layer of type 8 going to the back, the cordura and then the 2 layers of type 8 from the lift web. I have done a lot of packing but i am nowhere near pretending to be as knowledgeable as a master rigger. From this info i can't help thinking that the wraparound not only takes longer because of the thikness of material involved but also seems stronger. Does this make sense or am i completely losing the plot?

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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In that statement I was talking about the morpheus pc's. The mesh on the apex is way to dense, or thin and added to that is the placement of a morpheus logo on the apex. to me it just wouldn't work, although this is an opinion and i havn't seen anyone jump a morpheus av yet.

The purpose of a vented apex is to limit the oscillation of the PC by giving the air a place other than the sides of the PC topskin from which to escape. But in adding the vent, you compromise two things: snatch and drag. None of us want to compromise good snatch (and everyone knows Abbie loves to dress in drag).

In this, I actually happen to think that the fine mesh makes good sense. It's a little more restrictive than large-hole mesh and though I'm not sure of its cfm, it's definitely higher than the 0-3 of F111. With fine mesh, you're accomplishing the purpose of the vent, but not compromising the snatch and drag forces as much as you would with a large-hole mesh vent. Theoretically, this all makes sense in my head, but I'm sure there's a point of diminishing returns when it comes to the density of the fine mesh and that probably has a lot to do with the total surface area of the vents. Can't really comment on the apex patch/logo, but I don't think it really has too significant a negative impact.

-C.

[PeteS 0]

Ultimately, the wraparound is stronger. But if you broke either one you would have bigger problems, like straining yourself through the harness. The front of a harness is called a "Main lift web" for a reason, most of the load is there. The strength of most hardware is 2500 lb. A single ply of ty8 web is 4000lb.vs ty7 at 6000 lb. Thickness of material really has nothing to do with construction time in the big picture, my harness machine will sew my hand to the harness just as fast if I'm not careful. I've seen broken stitching on both types from poor fitting harness', so point loading is a bigger issue than type of construction.

[pocbase 0]

Thanks

The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win!
Enfin j'ai trouvé:
Bieeeen

[TomAiello 26]

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...I actually happen to think that the fine mesh makes good sense. It's a little more restrictive than large-hole mesh and though I'm not sure of its cfm, it's definitely higher than the 0-3 of F111.

I've seen test PC's that actually used "F-111" (0-3 cfm) as the vent material. The idea was to give the same flow through properties (with a larger vent) but faster inflation/less hesitation than a higher flow vent.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[pocbase 0]

well we could drag both types behind a car and see who's arm gets ripped off first with the least wobble.

When you're isolated like we are in s.a. (with regard to base) you tend to build up a few preconcepts. Our knowledge base becomes inbred and we need some external input once in a whiie. It's good to get a bit of a wake up to blow those things away.

The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win!
Enfin j'ai trouvé:
Bieeeen

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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well we could drag both types behind a car and see who's arm gets ripped off first with the least wobble.

Better yet, I just got a motorcycle. We can test each PC by deploying off the back of it instead.

Quote

When you're isolated like we are in s.a. (with regard to base) you tend to build up a few preconcepts. Our knowledge base becomes inbred and we need some external input once in a whiie. It's good to get a bit of a wake to blow those things away.

That's true for all of us--regardless of the geography--and conversations like this spur new thoughts and education.

-C.