ApooopA

[JaapSuter 0]

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Not pointing any fingers here, but this is starting to devolve into the same tired good/"ethical" jumper vs. the badboy/"unethical" jumper bullshit that never really goes away around here.

Somebody once said: "I guess it boils down to which Tom are you? the Tomtom's or the Nontoms..."

Me personally? I don't really give a shit, I just like to jump.

No, no, no! This is exactly the kind of moral relativism that gives sufficient leeway to the childish among us to destroy everything we love about this sport. I'll agree that exit points have a certain je-ne-sais-quoi that make a person forget whatever he disagreed on ten minutes earlier. But that doesn't mean we can't take a stand here, on the forums, among other jumpers, in public.

I hesitate to stand up for Tom, because the second you do you'll be called a Tom-lover and lose respect in the eyes of half the BASE community. But fuck it, this time I'll take my chances because I've seen just about enough bullshit recently that it makes me want to quit BASE jumping. I didn't get in this sport to hang out with a bunch of teenage skydivers.

The argument is really simple. Tom has made great contributions to the sport through online articles, endless conversations with anybody sending him questions, first jump courses, a Twin Falls presence, and forum moderation. Anybody denying this is either self delusional or whoefully ignorant. Nobody says he's perfect, but more people have enjoyed human flight in a safer way because of Tom than because of any other person.

That doesn't go for all the pussy ass whiny little bitches that feed on the trolling and aggravating of other people who are just here to enjoy the excitement of the sport and maybe learn something. You guys know who you are, you guys have not done a single productive thing in your entire life, and you guys behave in a way that vandalizes property, endangers other people, and generally just annoys the well behaving majority of the BASE community. And when you do, you don't apologize. You are proud of the grief you cause, and wallow in your self-righteous coolness. Look at me, I'm such a rebel!

Bah, it's despicable. Go contribute something positive for a change.

[Tenshi 0]

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I hesitate to stand up for Tom, because the second you do you'll be called a Tom-lover and lose respect in the eyes of half the BASE community.

There's a lot of bitching and pointless drama in the (dare I repeat myself) Anglosaxon base community. Let us up it doesn't blow across the sea.

[avenfoto 0]

Me personally? I don't really give a shit, I just like to jump....
i care not what the internet thinks.

i have nothing against tom, and argue against not a single point youve made.

but trolling on the fucking internet really shouldnt get any intelligent adults panties in a wad. on an objective level its quite insignifigant.

jump more...bitch less...

myself included.

[JaapSuter 0]

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Me personally? I don't really give a shit, I just like to jump....

I hope I didn't give the impression that the majority of my post was directed at you. They weren't. I just used your quote as a springboard.

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but trolling on the fucking internet really shouldnt get any intelligent adults panties in a wad. on an objective level its quite insignifigant.

It is not when new jumpers stop reading these forums because of its childish nature, and therefore miss out on the enormous amount of information that is hidden among the bullshit. Note, that doesn't imply that forums replace an FJC and mentorship, but it does imply there many people have in fact learned a lot through discussions on this forum.

Secondly, my post didn't just refer to internet trolling. Recent (and past) actions have transcended mere internet trolling, and it has reached a level that we should condemn explicitly.

Case in point, Maggot's recent tagging of other people's property has nothing to do with BASE, and is ultimately just juvenile vandalizing behaviour that no self-respecting productive member of society would approve of. The fact that he does it just to poke a stick in the BASE community's eye only amplifies the childish nature of his behavior.

That's just one example. There are many others out there that take things much further.

[lifewithoutanet 0]

I've been trying to stay out of the fray and kept a few conversations to PMs in an effort to keep things civil and avoid arguments, but you know...Jaap's right, so I'm just going to jump on this bandwagon. And anyone out there can call me a Tom-lover or a Jaap-lover or whateverthefuck else.

The fact is, I've gotten to know Tom over the past year and a half and he's always acted in the best spirit of BASE. The accusations that he would go to any law enforcement or authority is preposterous and if anyone wants to continue with that, put up w/ some proof or shut the fuck up. Say whatever you want about the CSI Huck 'em Off thing, but the fact is that in confronting CSI about Miles' course Tom 1.) didn't act alone and 2.) made his efforts to curtail that course known UPFRONT, before going to CSI.

Back to your whole skiBASE event, If somebody did rat you guys out, well, that's just plain dispicable and I have a serious lack of respect for any jumper that would do such a thing. It's contradictory to the Spirit of BASE and downright unacceptable. But have you considered that you reap what you sow?

Aside from the occasional good-natured jab I don't see very many people taking shots at or taunting you guys as relentlessly as you go after Tom or anyone who happens to be friends with him. And inevitably, just because we're friends with Tom we "must be wearing blinders" and "blindly follow what we read on the boards". What does that say about the rest of you? Have you met the guy? Formed your own opinion or are you just swallowing someone else's?

Fuck, I don't care if we don't all get along, but the bullshit Internet drama of this place is sickening. BASE jumping has some of the greatest people in the world? Like anything else, it's got its fair share of assholes, too. It would seem that most of us don't see it necessary to continuously point that out to everyone else, just becuase we (or maybe one of our friends) disagrees with them.

Remember when BASE was about BASE? Neither do I...and I think it's been several hundred BASE jumpers since anybody could. Fuck it.

-C.

[avenfoto 0]

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hat the majority of my post was directed at you

maybe a bit, but no worries. youre a smart,responsible jumper.
thats why we got along

but dropzonedotcom does not represent the base community

[badenhop 0]

Which you are not a member of,
but have and endless idle banter of opinions about...

Hello,
Don't they have a forum for anime and korfbal?

I'd stick up for Tom Aiello anytime,
the poop guys get what they dish out.
God bless you,
Avery

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I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[Tenshi 0]

Not really...but they have an excellent forum about going to a bar and poisining your liver.


I'm sorry...I really shouldn't act like I have an opinion. In fact...I'll stop posting all together.

Take care

[Mac 1]

hearsay and assumptions are 99% wrong and damaging to the sport..... think about the people actually doing something postive toward the up keep of the sport......

[kslay 0]

How would you like it if someone in the BASE community went to the cops and said, "this dude is jumping this object at this time"? Not cool at all, right? So there is alot of shit talking and banter in this forum, its only a dorky internet web site...NARCing people out is way over the line...BASE jumpers dont do that to other BASE jumpers. Oh yea, and you spelled it wrong, we are APOOOPA, and we are pretty damn rad.

[badenhop 0]

It seems maybe they do......

Hello,
BASE jumpers are human, not super-human.
They do things that humans do.
You guys play with poop.
Pretty rad, huh?
Avery

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[JackDoffdonner 0]

Gee this sure is fun kiddies! Temper, temper Jaap!
Now, you all are welcome to stand behind Tom. The majority of people do. That has never made it right though. Perceived well doers are not always good people. Tom is a wealth of knowledge in this sport and he has helped out more people than most. In many ways he is a good person. On the other hand he has taken it upon himself to police the base world and use this site to rally supporters behind him to great success. He has provoked much needless, childish banter and has been the driving force behind many personal attacks and threats of physical violence. Several issues that he has policed have actually never really been an issue until he has decided to make a big stink about it here and gather support. (No I'm not going to give examples. That will just get us all going into another big hissy about old issues)
Some of you accuse us of unprovoked attacks on Tom. Now that is funny! Unprovoked?!! It may seem that way to you but boy are you ever wrong about that.
I will give you this. Posting here and lighting fires in people's asses about issues that don't concern everybody else is childish. I wish that original post that started this thread was not made but I stand behind him anyway.
Concerning that proof that you guys so desperately want. Show me 100%, beyond any shadow of a doubt proof that someone like Miles D is damaging to our sport and I'll show you 100% proof that Tom A. narked on the APOOOPA event.
Before you start laying in to people because of what you hear about them on this forum think twice. Meet them in person first. As we all say every time these types of issues pop up, actions speak louder than words. And in the case of the APOOOPA event it was an action which spoke to the forest service.

[kslay 0]

Your post makes absolutely no sense at all, but thanks for posting it, because it shows just how smart you are.

[thawk58 0]

So I'm new to this forum......but I was just wondering....did the Forest Service Guys actually say someone called them about this event?....or were they just there when the jumpers showed up??

[JackDoffdonner 0]

Yes they did.

[Zodiac 0]

Good job guys, I'm glad it went smooth. Since I was not able to jump on Sunday I'll try to be there this weekend to continue the saga.

APOOOPA rocks.

My regards to the organizers and all participants.

[wwarped 0]

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Some of you accuse us of unprovoked attacks on Tom. Now that is funny! Unprovoked?!! It may seem that way to you but boy are you ever wrong about that.

personally, I read the attacks on Tom and don't understand them. they seem full of allegations and conclusions but lack any evidence.

I read Tom's posts, and he generally backs up his thoughts with facts.

until you provide supporting facts, I'll find it difficult to agree with your opinions.

potential exit point conversation:
"hey, go ahead and jump, it's safe!"
"in this wind? how do you know that?"
"what? you don't believe me? JUMP!"
"uh, you sure about that? this looks shakey..."
"it is safe! must I spell it out for you?"
"YES! I don't understand. educate me!"

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Concerning that proof that you guys so desperately want. Show me 100%, beyond any shadow of a doubt proof that someone like Miles D is damaging to our sport and I'll show you 100% proof that Tom A. narked on the APOOOPA event.

hmmmm. proof that Miles D is damaging to the sport? can't be done. by the time we would all agree that someone's actions are damaging, the situation would be out of control.

it's like on a jump when things look perfect, but don't feel right. many jumpers will climb down, feeling it was the right decision. proof? well, they can still jump again.

how do you prove Russian Roullette is dangerous? heck, squeeze that trigger. if nothing happens, wow, this is cool and safe?

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse