Calvin19 0 #1 July 6, 2006 anybody know where i can get a few GOOD rolls of parapak, cordura, dacron, spectra/dacron thread, F111, Pilot Chute ZP, Baloon ZP, all webbing and tape needed to build a rig, bridal, pilot chute, and possibly, a canopy. my idea is to make the whole thing with no metal, not for technical reasons, just to see if i can do it. the hardest part should be the cutaway cable, i dont want to use just plastic, i need some spectra sheathed with structural plastic or something. I also have no bar tach machine, only a med-duty single needle machine. i have spent about 300 hours on it in the last 3 years, but i dont know about making the canopy without automatic parallel stitching. i dont even know about making the canopy at all. oh, and i need ceramic pins. or make some out of carbon fiber. i mean, what the hell else am i going to do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bert_man 0 #2 July 6, 2006 you've watched dropzone recently, haven't you? -Ghetto "The reason death cannot frighten me, is because life has cured me of fear." Web Design Cleveland Skydiving Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #3 July 6, 2006 I have watched dropzone, a lot until i actualy started jumping. but a smugglers rig, that would be easy. i need a challenge. i want a fully functional non metalic rig. in fact, i can get pretty close to all fabric methinks. no velcro though, i hate velcro. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB38 0 #4 July 6, 2006 Are you insisting on a cutaway system? Integrated risers [akin to reserve risers on a skydiving rig] would make your little project easier. If you're not too allergic to velcro, it could make for a solid chest strap. Large amounts of mated velcro can have a surprising amount of strength. Metal parts on a rig that I can think of: 2x closing pins 2x closing loop keeper washers 2x closing grommets 4x slider grommets 2x toggle grommets 2x WLO toggle rings 4x slider bumper washers 2x rapide links [canopy attachment] 1x rapide link [pilot chute attachment] 1x bridle attachment point ring [not on all canopies] 2x three-ring system 2x cutaway housings 2x leg strap friction adapters 1x chest strap friction adapter What'd I forget?I really don't know what I'm talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bert_man 0 #5 July 6, 2006 What's the point of doing this anyway? I mean, suppose you do manage to make a non-metallic rig, and you try to get past security with it with intent to jump it. Its hard to get through a metal detector with balls of steel ...i crack myself up (disclaimer: its 3:54am and i have a deadline in 2:06 hours... and i'm running on way too much coffee for my own good)-Ghetto "The reason death cannot frighten me, is because life has cured me of fear." Web Design Cleveland Skydiving Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #6 July 6, 2006 300 hr? As I recall my first rig took me a week of late evenings after the shop closed. That included drawing the patterns. I can't say that it was a thing of beauty but it did work. In fact I've still got it. It's hanging on a rack in the corner I can see it from here. Would have gone quicker but I'd only seen a couple of "real" base rigs at the time and I was working from memory. Built metalless as well. That one was a rush job. Two days. I thought I had a shot at one of the local B's. Looks like a Jansport back pack. I appoud your ambition and your dedication. Man, three years. I wish my attention span was that long. My only concern is not that your trying to do this but that it is taking you so long. Maybe you had better find some one that can sew. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treejumps 0 #7 July 6, 2006 You want a building access rig. Velcro is the way to go. Getting all of the metal off of the rig is simple. Its the canopy you need to worry about. You can buy everything you need from paragear. Even at their prices you can all materials needed for about $150.00. Without a harness machine or zigzag, I would say don't waste your time. Even starting from scratch, making patterns and everythiong it should take no more than a few days. Have fun. Cya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gweeks 1 #8 July 6, 2006 Quote2x rapide links [canopy attachment] What'd I forget? To hook up two of your risers? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #9 July 6, 2006 QuoteAre you insisting on a cutaway system? Integrated risers [akin to reserve risers on a skydiving rig] would make your little project easier. Quote Actauly, i have changed my mind about the cutaway cord, im going to use a riser mounted cutaway system, the 3 "rings" is going to be easy out of fabric, done that before, it wont have the rigid "rotation lock" that 3 rings have, but i dont think that will be a problem. Quote If you're not too allergic to velcro, it could make for a solid chest strap. Large amounts of mated velcro can have a surprising amount of strength. hmmm. good point. and i guess i just hate velcro closed rigs, shrivel flaps and stuff. and the solid chest strap was th plan all along, the leg loops were going to be solid as well, i have been able to take my gargoyel off and on with only releasing the chest or leg straps, so either will be solid. this is also why i insist on the cutaway. i also think that my cutaway design mounted on risers is a much better idea than the cutaway cable running through the rig. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #10 July 6, 2006 ok... so im not building a metal rig to get past security, im building it so i can feel accomplished. i have had a lot of arguments with freinds that a fully functional 2pin rig cant be made without metal of some kind. and i can use my machine to build the harness, i have built webbing slings for rock climbing on this machine that hold about 20KN, (around 4000lb) one just has to be creative and knoledgable (obviously not about spelling) when it comes to sewing the best tape pattern without a heavy duty machine. shit, i have made a 15kn sling while sewing by hand. I assume the rig will only take about 2 weeks. i have never built a harness, or fingertrapped lines, but i have built sails for hang gliders. the 300 hours was building a very complex sail for my own design hang glider. i still fly it. edited to add... "shit, i have built a hang glider using everything i got from ace hardware. (nothing else, even the harness was tied rope) and useing no sewing machine, i used polyurethane tarp, and sewed the edges to the frame by hand. that took awhile, but she flew, i made a huge flight on that wing. granted, i had no sewing machine than, i was 16. oh yeah, and i crashed it when i was 17. i kept some peices, but in the next 2 years i built 2 more hang gliders. with a sewing machine and production harnesses Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #11 July 6, 2006 so, me being the weirdo bastard that tries to fix everything that aint broke, ... i think i can design better closing pins, and better ways of attatching them to a bridal. I think i can build a better pilot chute with a totaly new design. and i already have 2 base rigs, im doing this for fun. .. .. .. -SPACE- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites magot 0 #12 July 6, 2006 Matt your a fucking geuins and i would jump any rig u build these none beleavers are just pissed off because your so good looking ans smart. and my sister told me your hung like a horseTOSS MY SALAD I'm an invincible re-tarded ninja derka derka bakala bakala muhammad jihad 1072 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base283 0 #13 July 6, 2006 Check out this site and free download. It is quite excellent. I think you will enjoy it. Airfoil CAD stuff http://www.surfplan.com.au/sp/ take care, space Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #14 July 6, 2006 your sister said she has seen bigger, but none of them could move like me. my girlfreind is still jealous of your sister. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #15 July 6, 2006 I kitesuff as well, cool websight. i probably wont build the canopy, but if i did, i would make a simple 5 cell. eventualy i want to modify a blackjack with zp, with 10 risers. it would follow a paraglider riser setup, with no point other than research really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MB38 0 #16 July 6, 2006 QuoteQuote2x rapide links [canopy attachment] What'd I forget? To hook up two of your risers? The other two are held on with hopes and dreams.I really don't know what I'm talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #17 July 7, 2006 so... where can i buy large mesh fabric? all i can find is fine/high drag stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #18 July 7, 2006 Also, i have a few hundred meters of type E thread, what i use for hang glider sails. wondering what is used in Pilot Chutes? Containers? Canopies? Canopies are E i hope, Harnesses are type FF methinks, but i dono. I dono if my machine can handle much bigger that E, but, ill figure it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PeteS 0 #19 July 8, 2006 Do you have nylon or dacron thread? It is very important to match materials when making high stress equipment. Nylon will stretch more than dacron, so you can use nylon thread on dacron fabric but not the other way around. Most mesh we use for base is dacron, polyester is another name for it. Strong Enterprises will sell small quantity lots of material. Parastock in Florida is another source. Have fun Matt, I can answer alot of Q's for you, just ask. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #20 July 8, 2006 Thin suspension lines (i.e. HMA) are sewn with B thread. All other types of suspension lines are sewn (bar tacked or zig-zaged) with E thread. Most canopies and containers are sewn with E thread. Highly-stressed corners of containers are sewn with FF thread. While some parts of harnesses are sewn with E thread bar tacks, the vast majority of structural stitching is done with 5 cord or 6 cord. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 0 Go To Topic Listing
Calvin19 0 #10 July 6, 2006 ok... so im not building a metal rig to get past security, im building it so i can feel accomplished. i have had a lot of arguments with freinds that a fully functional 2pin rig cant be made without metal of some kind. and i can use my machine to build the harness, i have built webbing slings for rock climbing on this machine that hold about 20KN, (around 4000lb) one just has to be creative and knoledgable (obviously not about spelling) when it comes to sewing the best tape pattern without a heavy duty machine. shit, i have made a 15kn sling while sewing by hand. I assume the rig will only take about 2 weeks. i have never built a harness, or fingertrapped lines, but i have built sails for hang gliders. the 300 hours was building a very complex sail for my own design hang glider. i still fly it. edited to add... "shit, i have built a hang glider using everything i got from ace hardware. (nothing else, even the harness was tied rope) and useing no sewing machine, i used polyurethane tarp, and sewed the edges to the frame by hand. that took awhile, but she flew, i made a huge flight on that wing. granted, i had no sewing machine than, i was 16. oh yeah, and i crashed it when i was 17. i kept some peices, but in the next 2 years i built 2 more hang gliders. with a sewing machine and production harnesses Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #11 July 6, 2006 so, me being the weirdo bastard that tries to fix everything that aint broke, ... i think i can design better closing pins, and better ways of attatching them to a bridal. I think i can build a better pilot chute with a totaly new design. and i already have 2 base rigs, im doing this for fun. .. .. .. -SPACE- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magot 0 #12 July 6, 2006 Matt your a fucking geuins and i would jump any rig u build these none beleavers are just pissed off because your so good looking ans smart. and my sister told me your hung like a horseTOSS MY SALAD I'm an invincible re-tarded ninja derka derka bakala bakala muhammad jihad 1072 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #13 July 6, 2006 Check out this site and free download. It is quite excellent. I think you will enjoy it. Airfoil CAD stuff http://www.surfplan.com.au/sp/ take care, space Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #14 July 6, 2006 your sister said she has seen bigger, but none of them could move like me. my girlfreind is still jealous of your sister. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #15 July 6, 2006 I kitesuff as well, cool websight. i probably wont build the canopy, but if i did, i would make a simple 5 cell. eventualy i want to modify a blackjack with zp, with 10 risers. it would follow a paraglider riser setup, with no point other than research really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB38 0 #16 July 6, 2006 QuoteQuote2x rapide links [canopy attachment] What'd I forget? To hook up two of your risers? The other two are held on with hopes and dreams.I really don't know what I'm talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #17 July 7, 2006 so... where can i buy large mesh fabric? all i can find is fine/high drag stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #18 July 7, 2006 Also, i have a few hundred meters of type E thread, what i use for hang glider sails. wondering what is used in Pilot Chutes? Containers? Canopies? Canopies are E i hope, Harnesses are type FF methinks, but i dono. I dono if my machine can handle much bigger that E, but, ill figure it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteS 0 #19 July 8, 2006 Do you have nylon or dacron thread? It is very important to match materials when making high stress equipment. Nylon will stretch more than dacron, so you can use nylon thread on dacron fabric but not the other way around. Most mesh we use for base is dacron, polyester is another name for it. Strong Enterprises will sell small quantity lots of material. Parastock in Florida is another source. Have fun Matt, I can answer alot of Q's for you, just ask. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #20 July 8, 2006 Thin suspension lines (i.e. HMA) are sewn with B thread. All other types of suspension lines are sewn (bar tacked or zig-zaged) with E thread. Most canopies and containers are sewn with E thread. Highly-stressed corners of containers are sewn with FF thread. While some parts of harnesses are sewn with E thread bar tacks, the vast majority of structural stitching is done with 5 cord or 6 cord. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
