Chizazz 0 #1 March 9, 2004 Ok, so I'm ready to buy my first rig. I weigh about 190. would a 210 be a good size to start with? i have 53 jumps. i've done most on a 230. landed more or less all of them standing up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #2 March 9, 2004 The best source of advice on canopy sizing is your instructors. They know you and the dropzone you jump at, they've seen you land the 230. You may find this article helpful as you figure out what gear is going to work best for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #3 March 9, 2004 What Lisa said, and... 210 or 230 WHAT? 5 cell, (yeah I know but I have one in my basement), 7 cell, 9 cell, more than 9 cells, non-ZP, partial ZP, all ZP, rectangular, tapered, elleptical (better not be). There is a lot more to selecting a canopy than size. Getting a Paragear catalog to use as a reference will help you learn about the variations.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #4 March 9, 2004 ask your instructors. keep in mind that all 210s or 190s are not the same. some are much more high performance than others, so there's a lot more to look at than just wingloading. check with your instructors and follow their advice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orbitjunkie 0 #5 March 9, 2004 Dear Chiz, There are alot of concerns about type of canopy that come into play..as the others have pointed out, one thing however I would like to to bear in mind is a bigger canopy usually tends to be more forgiving. Way too many people downsize too quickly and get injured. Stay on the bigger canopy till you know as much as you can about how it flies etc. then look at smaller stuff. Bottom line is be safe not sorry Craig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chizazz 0 #6 March 10, 2004 it's a 210 sabre. so quite docile i believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #7 March 10, 2004 What kind of 230 did you jumpPeople are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #8 March 10, 2004 When the Sabre came out it was one of the hottest canopies. It is only docile compared to everything that's faster. Compared to some other choices and depending on how it's loaded it may not be right for you. But, lightly loaded Sabre's have become common for newer jumpers. It's also what I choose to jump, loaded up to 1.3-1.4. But I'm an old fart (relatively). The point? Be careful of making assumptions without all of the parameters considered, or knowing what to consider. A 210 isn't right just because you jumped a 230. A Sabre isn't right just because it's less docile than what your instructor might jump. The choice of canopy and size are intermingled with where you jump, what you've jumped, whether you have a clue yet or not (no offense ment, that's why you should ask the people that know you), etc., etc., etc. Because you asked if a 210 is right because you jumped a 230 without offering any other information, and assume that because it's a Sabre it's docile, leads me to believe you don't yet have enough knowledge to know all of the questions you need to ask and factors you need to take into consideration. TALK to YOUR instructors before making any assumptions about what is right for you. If it sounds like I'm ragging on you I'm sorry, but I want you (and everyone) to still be jumping at the end of the year.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chizazz 0 #9 March 10, 2004 Hmm...yeah our DZO mentioned it to me. so i'm guessing it'll be fine. the wingloading will be about 1.00. i weigh about 190. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #10 March 10, 2004 Okay, one last comment. The Sabre 210 has double brake line on each side. Only on is pulled down and stowed for opening. The 190 and up had these lines. They work ok, and certainly for a first rig it would be fine, but they never seemed to me to fly quite as well as the 170 and smaller with out the extra lines. Make sure someone familiar with these line shows you how to set the brakes. ONLY the line with the brake set loop gets pulled down. The other is left extended. This also makes flaking the canopy look just a little different. No hard, just different. Good luck.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #11 March 10, 2004 I have about the same # of jumps as you. I just bought my first rig last year. I am juping a Triathlon 190 (7cell Zero-p). I couldn't be happier :-) With all my gear on I am loading at about 1:1.00 I love my chute I love the landings. I felt some pressure to go even a bit smaller, but Why???? We are low timers and trust me you can easily kill yourself with a 1:1 ratio. IMO That is a good starting point for your weight, and don't rush off to downsize in a year.... Master that chute, know everything about it and be able to land it where you want in EVERY condition before moving on.... Again My Opinion, but don't let anyone tell you it is TOO BIG. You said you did most of your jumps on a 230.... I think you will see the difference on a 210 (provided they are the same type and material) however, it should be something you could handle. One thing you will notice is that those last 20 ft that come up on you a bit quicker!!!!! (Obviously all flight characteristics will be somewhate different). Good Luck... ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #12 March 10, 2004 QuoteI have about the same # of jumps as you. IMO That is a good starting point for your weight Do you know where this person jumps? Ever seen him land a parachute? Have any clue how much canopy control training he's received? Do you know anything about him other than his number of jumps and his body weight? Are you or have you ever been an instructor? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #13 March 10, 2004 Well Bytch .... Maybe you didn't notice that in my reply I said I have about the same # of jumps as you. AND IMO . In no way did I misreprestent myself .... So now what, we are going to start to limit the people who can opine based on the jump number? Someone here posted asking a question.... I gave them my info and my experience... You can do the same and so can his/her instructor. This person is looking for feedback, and that is what I gave. It is not MY job to decide what advice he/her takes and what advice they dismiss .... That is the funny thing about advice!!!! Now, If I were to pretend I was something I am not that would be a different story. But NO WHERE did I claim to be an expert... In FACT, I made it clear I was a low timer. If you have a problem with that then maybe you should have put Jump restrictions on posts Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #14 March 10, 2004 Perhaps you missed this thread. When people with far more experience at this than either you or I have (councilman24 for example) are not giving sizing or wingloading advice but instead referring the person asking the question to their instructors... you might consider doing the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #15 March 10, 2004 Quotebut instead referring the person asking the question to their instructors... you might consider doing the same. Yes, I Might... But I chose to give my opinion. I am entitled to do that you know. Look, he know to ask his instructor, he probably already has, but he is here looking for advice from others. I sure as shit didn't listen to everything my instructor said.... I am glad I didn't too. I saw some people get hurt that way. Look, when people are looking for advice do you think they want ONE opinion??? No, he probably asked his instructor, a friend on the DZ and here on DZ.... He will then make an educated decision based on that input. If he isn't old enough or smart enough to make decicision on his own, maybe skydiving isn't for him... My guess is he is smart enough. Now, I wasn't reckless in what I said either. I made it a point of saying "Don't feel pressure to downsize ...... 1:1 can still kill etc...." I think you are blowing this out of proportion, but again if you want to censor the posts.... BY ALL MEANS!!!!! Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #16 March 10, 2004 QuoteI think you are blowing this out of proportion, but again if you want to censor the posts.... BY ALL MEANS!!!!! And I think you are blowing this out of proportion. Over the past year or so I've developed the opinion that it is irresponsible for me or anyone else, regardless of experience, to give canopy sizing/wingloading advice over the internet to people I/they don't personally know based solely on the body weight and jump numbers of the person asking the question. You feel that what you offered was your opinion, I feel what you offered is advice. My responses were offered in the hopes that you would stop and think about what you were saying. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RampRat 0 #17 March 15, 2004 Interesting. My -irst canopy was a Saber 190 and I had the double lines. After stowing the brakes, I pulled enough of the inside line down to match the loop size created in the stowed line, wrapped them up together and velcroed them in place. Always worked for me. What never seemed to work good was leaving the nose exposed--- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #18 March 15, 2004 You know, the worst thing I've had to deal with as an instructor are students bring various forum OPINIONS to the DZ and saying "This guy says I can, Why won't you let me?!" And the guy that did this the most ignored my advice, bought a small triathlon, and broke his back on his 13th jump on the rig. My advice to everyone is that opinions AND advice from the internet have the same value as used chewing gum you pick up off the street. You don't know who left it and it's not worth much. And that includes advice from me. One of the main reasons I even post is to counteract 100, 50, or even 3 jump wonders giving advice. After 24 years and 2500 jumps, landing in back yards, lakes, trees, and horse pasture, I still haven't experienced everything that can happen under a parachute. 11 of the last 13 unplanned low turn fatalities happened during off airport landings. Someone reading forums like these day after day may think they have a clue. But, until they've experienced things for themselves, and worked with the huge variation in ability, skill, understanding, and learning speed of students, they probably aren't helping and may be their advice may be dangerous. The important thing for everyone in sports like skydiving is to understand what they DON'T know. In MY HUMBLE opinion.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #19 March 15, 2004 I've known others that stowed their brakes this way and got away with it. But the pulled down extra line just gets pulled out on opening and has a chance to get knotted up. The extra line is supposed to be left long and allows air to escape under the center of the tail.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #20 March 15, 2004 OK... We will all stop giving Opinions!!!!! We will let the guy guess instead. Did anyone read what I wrote??????????????? Can someone explain to me where I gave advice instead of opinion and MY experience? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #21 March 15, 2004 QuoteOK... We will all stop giving Opinions!!!!! We will let the guy guess instead. Did anyone read what I wrote??????????????? Can someone explain to me where I gave advice instead of opinion and MY experience? I think that the issue that is being brought up is that your opinion is percieved as advice. I am the first to admit that I don't have shit for jumps and the first and only thing I have ever posted in a thread like this was to go talk to your instructors. I know you have your opinion, I have one too, but that does not mean I should post it on here and risk getting someone hurt because they took my advice. I don't want that responsibility, when it comes to how much I have expereienced in skydiving its just a drop in the bucket, a very large bucket. I think everyone is free to post thier opinion, but it can become a problem if people percieve that opinion to be worth more than it really is.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #22 March 15, 2004 QuoteCan someone explain to me where I gave advice instead of opinion and MY experience? QuoteThat is a good starting point for your weight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #23 March 16, 2004 You Know btter than that SKYBYTCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Taken out of Context Let's see the real Quote -> QuoteIMO That is a good starting point for your weight, and don't rush off to downsize in a year That looks better.... Maybe you missed the IMO right before the statement. Stop Spinning!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #24 March 16, 2004 Why keep arguing this? It's obvious we disagree on whether what you said is an opinion or advice, and it's obvious that you aren't going to listen to what anyone says about you or any other person offering opinions/advice on canopy sizing to new jumpers. edited to remove a question that I decided I don't want to hear the answer to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
