Used rigs and "fresh" repacks

[skybytch 273]

I received a PM today from a novice jumper with a story to tell. Since so many people here are in the market for their first rig, I feel it's important to pass this story along to everyone.

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I recently purchased a complete used rig thru a seller on the DZ.Com. The rig is great, was delivered on time, etc. The reserve had just been repacked-with the same seal for who had packed it all the previous times. My regular rigger was not in town, and I had another one look at it from another DZ. He looked over the rig for value and general condition, said it was ok. Also said that he would wait for the repack cycle to be up before pulling out the reserve. Didn't sit right with me, but I wasn't going to argue.

Then, my regular/trusted rigger from my DZ came back and I asked for the repack from him, "just to be sure". He told me last weekend when I picked it up from him that the repack card had been pencil whipped and that not only had certain things been ignored, that my cutaway cables were dirty to the point where if I had a cutaway, it probably would have been a very hard if not impossible one. As it stands now, the rig was given the ok, and I was told that i paid a fair price for a solid rig. I was definitly a little shaken though.

The seller was not a rigger. I don't have the gear here to look at the card, which I'll do tonite, but I know that the card had been signed by the same rigger since the first entry. It was my rigger's opinion that only the last repack was fake, that the seller probably forged the card when he decided to sell it.

Lesson to be learned? Have your local rigger inspect the entire rig and repack the reserve before you jump a used rig that you've purchased from anybody, even if there is still time left on the current pack job. The cost of a repack is a small price to pay for your peace of mind.

[MULTIS 0]

Quote "It was my rigger's opinion that only the last repack was fake"

Wasn't that easy to check by contacting the rigger who supposedly signed that repack?

[piisfish 140]

scary scary...
well maybe if this person had a look at the card when purchasing the rig, he might not have seen that the last repack date was false...
maybe he should now contact the rigger who did the job and ask him.
in any case he should also get hold of the person who sold him the rig and let him know !!!

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Thanatos340 1]

Would the same hold true for a Brand new Rig?
I recently discussed buying a Complete New Custom Rig from a Gear dealer and they said it would arrive Packed and ready to jump. (Unfortunately the sale ended before I got my order in so I am still looking).
My first thought was WHY? There is no way I am jumping a new rig without having my Rigger do a Full inspection (Including the Reserve) first so I would still have to pay for a repack.
Is this reasonable or do most people take a new rig out of the Box and Jump it since it was packed by the manufacturer?

[skybytch 273]

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Wasn't that easy to check by contacting the rigger who supposedly signed that repack?

That would be the way to determine if the seller pencil packed it or not. I don't think the jumper in question has done so, at least not yet.

The big problem I see here is that had this jumper gone ahead and jumped that rig and had a problem, or had someone caught the pencil pack prior to the jumper getting on a plane, most people would assume that the jumper was the one who had sharpened up a pencil.

Another good reason to have your rigger inspect and repack any used rig is so you are sure that what you were told you bought is really what you received. While most sellers are honest about what they are selling, it's not unheard of for someone to either lie about what's in the rig or not even know for sure and guess.

[Nightingale 0]

how can you tell whether a rig's been pencil packed?

[skybytch 273]

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Would the same hold true for a Brand new Rig?

Absolutely. I prefer to deliver canopies and containers to my customers in the plastic bags the manufacturer puts them in and have them take the pieces to their rigger for assembly. That way both myself and the customer know that they received exactly what they ordered.

There are people out there who don't want to hassle with it and ask that their gear be delivered "ready to jump." Not the way I'd buy gear, but to each his own...

[skybytch 273]

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how can you tell whether a rig's been pencil packed?

Depends on the skill of the pencil packer. Comparing the handwriting and signatures on the data card is one way but some people are quite good at forging signatures and handwriting. This is why you'll see many riggers use rubber stamps for the date, location and certificate/seal on the data card.

[piisfish 140]

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There is no way I am jumping a new rig without having my Rigger do a Full inspection (Including the Reserve) first so I would still have to pay for a repack.
Is this reasonable or do most people take a new rig out of the Box and Jump it since it was packed by the manufacturer?

a guy at a DZ close to mine purchased his equipment at a manufacturer, jumped it several times, then brought it to his rigger for a check...
The reserve was not connected...
You guessed it,
once the rig had been inspected, the reserve connected, he jumped... and used the reserve..
Now, that's a story I was told more than a year ago, might be a Urban Skydiving Legend...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[riggerrob 643]

How can you tell if it was pencil-packed?
If the last entry is penciled in ....
The lead seal is no longer shiny ...
The last rigger demands an extra $55 for every time his signature appears on your card ....

I used to get upset about pencil-packing, but now I just charge for every time my signature appears o a reserve card. Hee! Hee!

And if you think I am tough, the FAA charged Steve Magnuson US$500!


Rob Warner
FAA Master Rigger

[skydiver30960 0]

On PD canopies I like to compare the number of signatures on the card to the number of slashes or X's on the TSO card on the rig. You can mark the card without opening the rig, but getting to the panel is a little bit tougher...

[skyyhi 0]

Okay, this is a very good thread. . .I can't even imagine not having someone I trust (i.e.: my local rigger) take a look at (read: repack) a rig I am purchasing. Peace of mind. . .

Glad the guy was persistent in getting that repack done. . .

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[riddler 0]

Another lesson - you don't have to be a rigger to clean your own cutaway cables. You should flex your three ring system every 30 days. When you do that, also pull out that cutaway cable and apply some Ace lubricant to them. It's easy to do, just ask your rigger to show you how at your next repack.

I've never seen cutaway cable so dirty that it would be impossible to cutway, but it makes it much easier to cutaway if they are cleaned and lubed.

Edit to add - one rigger let me know that he's seen a few so dirty he could pick up the entire rig by the cutaway alone - that's pretty bad. Remember that 22 pounds of pull force on the ground can easily become much more with a spinning mal. Hard inserts and cleaning your cables are a very good idea

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Trent 0]

When we sell used gear at the DZ or over the internet, we do NOT have fresh repacks on them for exactly this reason. First, we want it clear that we do not rent out our used gear fleet while we wait for it to sell. Second, we want each buyer to be able to take it to their rigger to get it repacked and inspected so they can see what they're buying.

I know buying used gear can be a little scary, we're just trying to make it easier to see that not everyone is out there to screw you over.

Oh, hello again!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Would the same hold true for a Brand new Rig?
I recently discussed buying a Complete New Custom Rig from a Gear dealer and they said it would arrive Packed and ready to jump. (

Is this reasonable or do most people take a new rig out of the Box and Jump it since it was packed by the manufacturer?

I know of one new rig where critical harness stitching was missing.

There's a lot to be said for personally going through your gear or at least delegating to some one you trust. When delegating, I'd expect a checklist and tools in/tools out count.

[FrogNog 1]

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I know of one new rig where critical harness stitching was missing.

One of my riggers was kind enough to inspect this for me on my new rig before I got in the plane.

Now I think I need to have him do a repack because I don't know how well the reserve is put together - new rig and all, and it came ready-to-go. :S

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[slotperfect 7]

I won't buy a rig, new or used, without seeing every stitch of it. When I bought my new rig two years ago, during my pre-assembly inspection I found an abrasion on the reserve where it had been rolled over with the wheel of a chair. The manufacturer gladly replaced it immediately.

I recommend to anyone that fresh repack or not, they have their trusted Rigger go over it with a fine-toothed comb before you buy it. Have him give you a detailed list of what he finds and a recommended action for each item.

Arrive Safely

John

[relyon 0]

Thanks for sharing Lisa. Good advice indeed.

FWIW, I recently sold my freefall rig with a fresh repack. Knowing how I might feel as a buyer, I went out of my way to educate them as much as possible about what I knew about it both good and bad. I very strongly suggested they talk with the master rigger who had done the I & R (Velocity's Kelly Farrington) before even demoing it, which they did. I also offered to put them in contact with the rigger that had originally built the container and assembled the entire system.

Bob (who admit's very nice to have your rigger, dealer, and manufacturer on site at the home DZ)

[masterrig 1]

Been there... done that, Rob! To save a lot of hassle, I now use a rubber stamp for my rigger number and seal symbol I agree with you, if my name is on it I want the payment.

Chuck