SLandings 0 #1 October 5, 2006 I'm thinking of buying a new Flik canopy and need some advice. My weight is 200 pounds, what size is better for me: 293 or 322, and why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #2 October 5, 2006 I'm not going to offer you advice on your canopy size, I'm sure someone with more experience will. I will offer you my own personal experience and thoughts I weigh 217lbs and have a Troll 305 MDV. Bigger canopies weigh more and so the time from extraction to deployment may take marginally longer, which is just something that needs to be kept in mind when deciding to jump low objects. I cant say its something I could quantify but i definatley have noticed a difference in the time it takes for my canopy to be 'flying' compared to that of others with smaller canopies....for no other reason it seems other than canopy size.. I have no time on unvented BASE canopies , but for my size and likely objects a vented canopy has to be beneficial. Somebody I trust gave me good advice on sizing once saying ' You will almost never regret having a larger canopy, If in doubt ...go larger" I think you also have to look at the objects you are going to be jumping.... If you are Swiss or Norwegian and doing mostly big walls, you may well want a different size canopy to that you would 'want' doing low 'A's at night with small landing areas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SLandings 0 #3 October 5, 2006 I live in Moscow, and I'going to make most jumps from antennas and building that are 100-150 meters tall. I'm going to buy a vented canopy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicrussell 0 #4 October 5, 2006 If you are worried about size go larger. however there are some issues with larger canopies in regards to lower jumps. spec: extraction time and pc choice. my tid bit would be go to a gym and drop some weight. but i dont know you, so you can tell me to go to hell. your not fat, just husky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #5 October 5, 2006 The lowest jump I have done to date is a 170ft 'A' which was Static lined. This gave 6 secs to touchdown......interestingly, all of the other jumpers had the same time......(canopy size range 220? -305)......I still dont understand that, as well as not understanding how much I enjoyed that jump that low ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SLandings 0 #6 October 5, 2006 Ow, I'm not fat at all (not yet ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katzurki 0 #7 October 5, 2006 Naa, he's not at all fat, he's just freakishly tall. You should see the amazing flare he gets out of my rock dragon, seeing how his arms are so much longer than mine! (need to shorten steering lines in near future Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sabre210 0 #8 October 5, 2006 Just go large. Simple. ian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites katzurki 0 #9 October 5, 2006 Ian, Tom, Yuri (and other people flying big), Do you think the riser response feedback is going to be substantially slower on a 293 vs 322 (that's almost 30 square feet of nylon, after all)? If I remember correctly, when Yuri_base had his cliffstrike on the Flik 322, he mentioned the large size had something to do with the slow turn rate. To what extent do you consider this characteristic (the inertia-induced slow response time) when choosing to go big? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yuri_base 1 #10 October 5, 2006 I find my Flik 322 quite responsive to fast inputs. It does toggle-whip 180 on a dime, and riser-stalls instantly, too. It's just flying slow (although at very good glide ratio), and that's what I like about it. The slow turn rate in my cliffstrike was caused by instinctively grabbing the risers near shoulders and not having enough range of motion.Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps: L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP iOS only: L/D Magic Windows only: WS Studio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites d_goldsmith 1 #11 October 6, 2006 I've noted from previous comments that some people also like to use a size smaller than normal in high winds. For penetration I'm assuming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RJmoney 0 #12 October 6, 2006 yeah in my expert opinion penetration is pretty important for the sport.word to your mother, RJ$$ BASE 1117 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RayLosli 11 #13 October 6, 2006 322 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #14 October 6, 2006 QuoteDo you think the riser response feedback is going to be substantially slower on a 293 vs 322 (that's almost 30 square feet of nylon, after all)? No. I own and jump a ridiculous spread of gear at the moment, and I can tell you that the riser reponse is not correlated to canopy size very closely. Within one model, there is a slight difference (slower at bigger sizes) but the difference is much greater from one canopy model to another. If you're going larger, definitely get the Vtec (which, this month isn't going to be much of a problem, is it?) to help with inflation, for sure. Gotta love that free Vtec deal on the Flik this month, eh? I'm trying to decide if I should break down and replace 5 or 6 of my student canopies with new Flik Vtecs, and sell off other gear at Bridge Day. My experience has been that the Ace/BJ have the fastest (in time) riser responsiveness, and also appear to lose the most altitude during the riser correction. I hypothesize that these are related phenomenon, but I have yet to do any empirical testing, so my theories are based on subject observation, not statistical data.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #15 October 6, 2006 For what it's worth, I say go with the 322. I've almost never found myself wishing for less nylon over my head (not counting that dodgy alley in San Francisco where the end cells were clipping both walls), but I've frequently found myself wishing for more nylon (especially when I was looking at an out landing on broken ground).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdatc 0 #16 October 6, 2006 QuoteGotta love that free Vtec deal on the Flik this month, eh? WHat? Free VTEC on a flik... I was debating picking up another set of kit... I didn't see the special on the website... Is it a for Tom only special? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RayLosli 11 #17 October 6, 2006 I think that is what DJ also told me last week. Some kind of deal for the month or something like that ? V-tec mod. as a freebee this month with purchase with Flik ? Flik 293 with venting is a canopy that has treated me pretty well so far. I got 3 of there products flying at this moment and have owned 6. - Share this post Link to post Share on other sites willh 0 #18 October 6, 2006 I weigh 203lbs and jump a 310 ace. The 310 is great. I do believe that the 310 ace is sized differently than the flik (when sizing; the stabilizers are included in the calculation on the ace). What is the 310 ace comparable in the flik? May be someone can verify the comparable..... Will Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #19 October 6, 2006 QuoteWHat? Free VTEC on a flik... I was debating picking up another set of kit... I didn't see the special on the website... Is it a for Tom only special? It's for the month of October only, for Flik and FOX canopies. I know that Apex sent out a notification to all their dealers. I'm not sure if you have to order through a dealer to get the special or not.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaveO 0 #20 October 6, 2006 Heavier jumpers are at a slight disadvantage when it comes to canopy size and wing loading. A jumper under a 200 sq. ft canopy with a wing loading of .75 will have more penetration into the wind than a jumper under a 310 sq ft canopy with the same wing loading. The drag of the bigger canopys doesn't scale with wing loading. I weight 190 lbs and jump a Black Jack 310 and a Troll DW 305 MDV normally from 250ft to 350ft. range for freefalls. In zero to light winds they are awsome, but add a 10 mph wind to the equation and I'm at a stand still. The Black Jack has more forward speed than the Troll but I'm still limited. Since I tend to jump in higher winds on slider up jumps I bought a ACE 280 which gives me that higher wing loading and a little less drag. So my advice would be to go with the larger canopy if your jumping the low stuff in light winds. I'm no expert. Just my 2 cents"When it comes to BASE, I'll never give advice, only my opinion" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE864 0 #21 October 9, 2006 I too fly a vented 322. My $0.02 is to go larger. Given my weight, if I would have had option to get something bigger than the 322, I would have. However, the 322 does me well. Regardless of what you size you end up with - make sure it is vented (V-TEC). I think that is a must for the big canopies if you are jumping anything remotely low on a regular basis. As others have said in the thread - the bigger canopies do take longer to get inflated and flying and also require a bigger PC. Meaning - when your buddy jumps a 38" on his 260 you should consider a bigger PC on your 322. There's more fabric to pull off your back and the bigger PC is necessary. Later, BASE864 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites blitzkrieg 0 #22 October 9, 2006 jump someone else's gear and buy what you can fly. i'm around 190 and i jump 260-280. on most jumps i still prefer my ACE 260. if you can't land it, buy body armor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 0
sabre210 0 #8 October 5, 2006 Just go large. Simple. ian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katzurki 0 #9 October 5, 2006 Ian, Tom, Yuri (and other people flying big), Do you think the riser response feedback is going to be substantially slower on a 293 vs 322 (that's almost 30 square feet of nylon, after all)? If I remember correctly, when Yuri_base had his cliffstrike on the Flik 322, he mentioned the large size had something to do with the slow turn rate. To what extent do you consider this characteristic (the inertia-induced slow response time) when choosing to go big? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yuri_base 1 #10 October 5, 2006 I find my Flik 322 quite responsive to fast inputs. It does toggle-whip 180 on a dime, and riser-stalls instantly, too. It's just flying slow (although at very good glide ratio), and that's what I like about it. The slow turn rate in my cliffstrike was caused by instinctively grabbing the risers near shoulders and not having enough range of motion.Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps: L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP iOS only: L/D Magic Windows only: WS Studio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_goldsmith 1 #11 October 6, 2006 I've noted from previous comments that some people also like to use a size smaller than normal in high winds. For penetration I'm assuming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RJmoney 0 #12 October 6, 2006 yeah in my expert opinion penetration is pretty important for the sport.word to your mother, RJ$$ BASE 1117 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #14 October 6, 2006 QuoteDo you think the riser response feedback is going to be substantially slower on a 293 vs 322 (that's almost 30 square feet of nylon, after all)? No. I own and jump a ridiculous spread of gear at the moment, and I can tell you that the riser reponse is not correlated to canopy size very closely. Within one model, there is a slight difference (slower at bigger sizes) but the difference is much greater from one canopy model to another. If you're going larger, definitely get the Vtec (which, this month isn't going to be much of a problem, is it?) to help with inflation, for sure. Gotta love that free Vtec deal on the Flik this month, eh? I'm trying to decide if I should break down and replace 5 or 6 of my student canopies with new Flik Vtecs, and sell off other gear at Bridge Day. My experience has been that the Ace/BJ have the fastest (in time) riser responsiveness, and also appear to lose the most altitude during the riser correction. I hypothesize that these are related phenomenon, but I have yet to do any empirical testing, so my theories are based on subject observation, not statistical data.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #15 October 6, 2006 For what it's worth, I say go with the 322. I've almost never found myself wishing for less nylon over my head (not counting that dodgy alley in San Francisco where the end cells were clipping both walls), but I've frequently found myself wishing for more nylon (especially when I was looking at an out landing on broken ground).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdatc 0 #16 October 6, 2006 QuoteGotta love that free Vtec deal on the Flik this month, eh? WHat? Free VTEC on a flik... I was debating picking up another set of kit... I didn't see the special on the website... Is it a for Tom only special? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RayLosli 11 #17 October 6, 2006 I think that is what DJ also told me last week. Some kind of deal for the month or something like that ? V-tec mod. as a freebee this month with purchase with Flik ? Flik 293 with venting is a canopy that has treated me pretty well so far. I got 3 of there products flying at this moment and have owned 6. - Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willh 0 #18 October 6, 2006 I weigh 203lbs and jump a 310 ace. The 310 is great. I do believe that the 310 ace is sized differently than the flik (when sizing; the stabilizers are included in the calculation on the ace). What is the 310 ace comparable in the flik? May be someone can verify the comparable..... Will Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #19 October 6, 2006 QuoteWHat? Free VTEC on a flik... I was debating picking up another set of kit... I didn't see the special on the website... Is it a for Tom only special? It's for the month of October only, for Flik and FOX canopies. I know that Apex sent out a notification to all their dealers. I'm not sure if you have to order through a dealer to get the special or not.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaveO 0 #20 October 6, 2006 Heavier jumpers are at a slight disadvantage when it comes to canopy size and wing loading. A jumper under a 200 sq. ft canopy with a wing loading of .75 will have more penetration into the wind than a jumper under a 310 sq ft canopy with the same wing loading. The drag of the bigger canopys doesn't scale with wing loading. I weight 190 lbs and jump a Black Jack 310 and a Troll DW 305 MDV normally from 250ft to 350ft. range for freefalls. In zero to light winds they are awsome, but add a 10 mph wind to the equation and I'm at a stand still. The Black Jack has more forward speed than the Troll but I'm still limited. Since I tend to jump in higher winds on slider up jumps I bought a ACE 280 which gives me that higher wing loading and a little less drag. So my advice would be to go with the larger canopy if your jumping the low stuff in light winds. I'm no expert. Just my 2 cents"When it comes to BASE, I'll never give advice, only my opinion" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE864 0 #21 October 9, 2006 I too fly a vented 322. My $0.02 is to go larger. Given my weight, if I would have had option to get something bigger than the 322, I would have. However, the 322 does me well. Regardless of what you size you end up with - make sure it is vented (V-TEC). I think that is a must for the big canopies if you are jumping anything remotely low on a regular basis. As others have said in the thread - the bigger canopies do take longer to get inflated and flying and also require a bigger PC. Meaning - when your buddy jumps a 38" on his 260 you should consider a bigger PC on your 322. There's more fabric to pull off your back and the bigger PC is necessary. Later, BASE864 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blitzkrieg 0 #22 October 9, 2006 jump someone else's gear and buy what you can fly. i'm around 190 and i jump 260-280. on most jumps i still prefer my ACE 260. if you can't land it, buy body armor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
