Rounds from the 60's - Pros and Cons

[skypuppy 1]

Note that I said I truly believe that we had fewer broken bones in those days. It was strictly my opinion based on cursory personal observation. Whose opinion am I permitted to give?
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Re-reading your post, Mike, I see you did qualify that one statement, but most of your other statements, which I could argue with, were presented as fact when they were also just opinion, ie the old chutes packed simpler, etc.

As for what opens faster, a 7-cell, base-type square will open MUCH faster then a round. For many reasons. One is that the lines, and the canopy is much shorter and therefore takes less time to play out. Another is that a square will open bottom skin first, and the square footage between round and square is dramatically different, it takes much less time for a square to 'open'. Then, if you're in freefall, there's the factor of weight -- a para-commander canopy weighs in at about 16 pounds, depending on model, material, etc. My skydiving rig weighs in at not much more then that, so the force required to lift a modern canopy out of the container (snatch force?) would logically be much less then the force to lift an older round canopy, especially at low speeds in a BASE environment.

For an example of a fast square parachute opening, I think there is footage on the web of some cutaways performed sub-300' using the Relative workshop's skyhook which dramatically proves the point.

Phil Smith and some of his crew (maybe Randy or Rick could comment on this) worked on a smaller BASE round for low water jumps, but I believe it was to be used only for water jumps because in order to open fast enuf they reduced it in size to somewhere around 10 feet or less, with correspondingly shorter lines as well.

Rounds are great in certain applications, they obviously open well and ofter a malfunctioned round is still landable, or the military wouldn't be still using them in large numbers. But if squares had been around in the '60's I'm sure you and Brian would have been using them.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[460 0]

Small rounds with apex pulled down by a center line... Also, some of the 8 foot round reserves I believe were custom made One can buy tiny rounds (some with the apex pulled down) from hang glider reserve manufacturers. They oscillate like crazy though.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[d_goldsmith 1]

Skypuppy your still comparing skydiving gear to the 60's rounds. This is what they used for BASE. It was BASE gear.

Has the sorcerrer had cutaways sub 200 feet? And is it the same technology as the sky hook? I think both of those are yes, but I'm not 100% sure.

[MikePelkey 0]

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mike dont worry about me im to stupid to get hurt
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Magot,

My son Brian met you at this year's Bridge Day and was very impressed with you. I don't believe for one second that you are stupid.

By the way, my reply to your last post sounded rather presumptuous when I read it back. I wish I had taken more time with it before I posted it. I know you're an expert base jumper and certainly don't need advice from anyone who has only two base jumps under his belt.

In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. -

"RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB
http://www.johnny

[MikePelkey 0]

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I see you did qualify that one statement, but most of your other statements, which I could argue with, were presented as fact when they were also just opinion
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Sorry if I came off that way Rob. They were all intended as nothing more than my opinion. Possibly my recollection of the way things were back then were dimmed a bit by the 40 year time gap.

I'll certainly give you the 7 or 8 foot difference in length between the two types of canopies. At terminal velocity that much difference would eat up approximately 46 milliseconds of valuable time. My bad.

In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. -

"RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB
http://www.johnny

[TomAiello 26]

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Roger Nelson started training AFF using BOC pc's. he modified the spandex pouch to be attached only along one side. the other two used a "zipper" configuration (similiar to wingsuits). he mounted that handle on the left. either JM could thus initiate deployment. video showed the spandex jumping out of the way.

Several years ago I talked to Martin Tilley about making a similar modificatin on a BASE rig, and some thoughts he had on that sort of system (including the possibility of running the release around the actual main container itself, so the canopy could be released directly). I'm not sure if he every played with it any more after that, though.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[d_goldsmith 1]

The first time I heard about a PC being constricted by something, I thought of an O-Fck handle. A sling tied directly to your canopy attachment point routed out the same way as the bridle and velcroed in to the side of the rig, so if your pc was constricted, snagged something and was destroyed, bridle cut on something, ect... you could pull like your life depended on it on the O-Fck handle and try to get some canopy in the wind.

[JimGuyer 0]

Mike started a very interesting discussion. I started out in 1951 with a T-7. When it opened it felt like you were hit with a sledge hammer.The Army than changed to T-10s. The opening was much softer. Neither could be steered to any degree. It was really fun, over 50 years later, to jump the squares. When I was teaching at the Airborne School in 1954 we had students who when making their first jump had never been in an airplane before. None of them froze. I finally had to quit after I got hurt at Moab. I was over 75 years old then.

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[NickDG 23]

Pelkey & Guyer - Us newbs haven't a chance now . . . !

NickD BASE 194

[MikePelkey 0]

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I started out in 1951 with a T-7. When it opened it felt like you were hit with a sledge hammer.
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Wow, talk about a true pioneer. I was 11 years old when you started jumping. That was many years before the first modded parachutes appeared. I feel like a newbie now.

Jumping the square last year, after a nearly 40 year respite, was just like stepping into the future for me. I'd love to hear about your introduction to the square after all the evolutionary technologies you had under your belt.

My hat is off to you Jim. Thanks for the post.

In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. -

"RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB
http://www.johnny