Mac 1 #1 November 18, 2006 Just spoken to a friend out there at the moment, and it seems an Hungarian jumper has hit the cliff in freefall..... Thats all I know.... RIP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pocbase 0 #2 November 18, 2006 Someone on the FBA forum says it was a hungarian beginner who took too long a delay at LM. Impact in the rocks during opening. RIPThe bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #3 November 18, 2006 looks like this is going to be a record-breaking year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pocbase 0 #4 November 19, 2006 Apparently this would have been his second BASE jump. His first was a hand held off the same spot. When questioned about it, the two other hungarians with him got all defensive and adopted a "mind your own business" attitude... His two buddies must be a bit dodgy to go and dispatch him off a rock on his first jumps ever... That's just stupid!The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ten48 0 #5 November 19, 2006 I was wondering how someone can over delay and impact the rocks at LM. The least you can do is track a little bit and over delay to impact the trees. It's time now! My time now! Give me mine. Give me my wings! - MJK Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base915 0 #6 November 19, 2006 That's the second pull-up-cord-round-the-PC death and second beginner-in-Lauterbrunnen death this year. If there are any people viewing who intend to start BASE jumping read this: http://hometown.aol.com/base194/myhomepage/base_fatality_list - don't repeat the mistakes. It makes you look foolish if you do. I think it's time for controlled access to the valley sites. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_goldsmith 1 #7 November 19, 2006 Do you have more info than the rest of us? I think you just implied that the Swiss fatality that Mac posted about was due to a pull up cord? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fueler 0 #8 November 19, 2006 QuoteDo you have more info than the rest of us? I think you just implied that the Swiss fatality that Mac posted about was due to a pull up cord? negative. there was a fatality in the UK i believe that was a result of a pull up cord around the PC. edit> here you go. now YOU go read the list again. #94 Paul Smith-Crallan, March 15, 2006 Tower Jump (600-ft electricity pylon) Impact Swanscombe, Kent, Great Briton Age: 25 Paul, who was under the supervision of a mentor, is jumping this pylon for the first time. His mentor is known to teach his charges to use a packing aid when folding pilot chutes for stowed jumps. Apparently Paul did not remove the packing aid, which was a pull up cord, prior to jumping and on deployment the pilot chute failed to extract the canopy in time for full inflation. Nicknamed, "BaseMonkey" Paul was well liked and very enthusiastic about the sport. The lesson here is obvious for both mentors and students. **************************************** what!? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base915 0 #9 November 19, 2006 No, no more info than I've read here. I meant that people are repeating avoidable fatal scenarios. Two pull-up-round-the-PC fatalities this year and two jumpers dying on their second ever BASE jumps in the valley. How sad is that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RayLosli 11 #10 November 19, 2006 Oh there are lots of ways you can do that on your 2nd BASE jump on LM . You can go off unstable all the way-in. When you should try for separation from the object. You can go off stable and 'think' you are Tracking. When you are really not and go-in. You can go off and not Track & just smoke it to low on the pull and just go-in at line-stretch . You can go off stable with very little Tracking and fumble to find your PC handle and go-in. You can go off with no Track and just brain lock and do nothing all the way-in. No facts will come of how or what the circumstances of how he went-in. Unless the other jumpers in the group chime in with the facts. Or there was eye witness from ground. So its pretty much all guesses and hearsay in this Thread on the facts. - The BASE gods are finally asking for some payments on a really past due account. Fuck it. We owe them, might as well pay up with a few unprepared and un-educated jumpers. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pocbase 0 #11 November 19, 2006 From the FBA: QuoteBonjour à tous Je viens de rentrer de Lauterbrunnen Hier soir le 17/11/06 à 18h. J'ai rencontré le groupe des 3 hongrois à la Mousse. J'ai discuté un peu avec eux et ils étaient tous euphoriques de sauter ici. Vu leur discours et leur briefing du saut, je me suis dit que c'était des mecs très expériementés. Jusqu'au moment où je vois un des 3 avec l'extracteur à la main. Je lui demande ce qu'il fait. Ce dernier me répond que c'est son 1er saut de BASE. Ses potes avaient l'air de dire "de quoi tu te mêle". Ils lui ont également demandé de revenir face à la falaise après ouverture pour pouvoir filmer leur saut. J'ai regardé ça de loin avec mon pote. Après leur exit on les a suivi du regard et ils nous ont fais peur par leur dérive très peu efficace. Après notre saut nous avons pris la route pour rentrer en France. J'apprends cet accident par une copine qui, elle, est restée sauter avec eux et a vu l'accident. Je souhaite plein de courage dans cette épreuve au 2 hongrois et bon vent au malchanceux ... Translated: "Hello everyone I just got back from Lauterbrunnen last night 17/11/06 at 6pm. I met a group of 3 hungarians at LM. I spoke with them and they were all euphorical about jumping here. From their speech and the briefing of the jump, I thought that they must have been quite experienced. Until the moment I saw one of the three with his pc in hand. I ask him what he is doing. His reply is that it's his 1st BASE jump. His friends seemed to be saying "mind your own business". They also asked him to come back facing the cliff after opening so that he could film their jump. I watched it from a distance with a friend. After exit we watched them and they scared us with their poor tracking abilities. After our jump we got on the road back to France. I hear of this accident through a girlfriend who stayed jumping with them and saw the accident. My best wishes through this challenge to the 2 hungarians and may the one who had bad luck rest in peace." The last sentence was tweaked a bit since it doesn't translate too well.The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win! Enfin j'ai trouvé: Bieeeen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hannes1 0 #12 November 19, 2006 if this info is correct.. so sad and so stupid !!..sorry to say this at the moment. we dont care anything ..life is free ..uups.. RIP take care hannes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LukeH 0 #13 November 19, 2006 What a waste... There are better ojects than a cliff for first few base jumps. There are better places than LB for first few cliff jumps. There are better exits in LB than LM for lower experienced jumpers. LM is not a good place to go Handheld. All of these things should be fairly obvious to anyone that does a little research or is an 'experienced' jumper. The odd weren't being stacked in his favour... School boy errors... that cost a life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartinRosen 0 #14 November 19, 2006 This is just another proof. The Swiss Valley is NOT a place for unexperienced jumpers, ITs NOT a place fr them who does not track well. This place kills more than any other place, cant some people understand that this is a place fpr experienced sub-trackers. Most of the accidents in this valley is because of low experience. Have the inteligence and manners to avoid this valley untill you get skills. I recomend to jump bridges, antennas and overhangd terminal cliffs before. and at least have 50 jumps (rahter 100) before you enter the valley. The more shit that happends there the closer we will get to closing the valley. Im sorry about the accident. just another sad story. I feal for the family! regards /Martin Team Bautasten Sweden/Martin - Team Bautasten of Sweden Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martin245 0 #15 November 19, 2006 The info is correct http://www.echo-von-grindelwald.ch/artikel/?cq_*e54c3f8c=ivxPU=87988eyk my condolences to the deceased jumper´s family and friends Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE_1007 0 #16 November 19, 2006 we have to stop it. or others will stop us.... throwing a beginner off la mousse is manslaughter in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
321Cya 0 #17 November 19, 2006 QuoteAll of these things should be fairly obvious to anyone that does a little research or is an 'experienced' jumper. True. But the questions are if he did do his research and if the other two jumpers were actually 'experienced'? Therefore I think it's not so obvious at all. Not all of us are looking at DZ.com, have a group of BASE jumpers around them to learn from or know what we know... It's a sad and unnecessary loss that should be a lesson for future jumpers. Now we only need to find a way to get the message across. Hopefully a ban won't be that way! My condolences go out to family and friends of the jumper. J. www.vandrunen.ch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wwarped 0 #18 November 19, 2006 Quote True. But the questions are if he did do his research and if the other two jumpers were actually 'experienced'? research? like finding cool looking jumps on the internet and then trying to mimic them? that kind of research? the evasive behavior of the 2 "experienced" jumpers would indicate they KNEW they were cutting corners. it's sad that people repeat these mistakes. it lends credibility to Darwin... DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #19 November 19, 2006 Not at you wwarped. I think this is an overdelay situation from the few observations posted. It may had not much to do with the site. That being said, I am against the practice of bringing beginners off of solid objects. Though I did back in the day. I only ask that we don't lose sight of what happened because we don't want beginners on advance sites. If he had an object strike because of insufficient tracking, Then let it be known. If he had an impact because of an overdelay, let it be known. One has to do with skill, the other, brainlock. Ya gotta keepem seperated. take care, space Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mikki_ZH 0 #20 November 19, 2006 QuoteNot at you wwarped. I think this is an overdelay situation from the few observations posted. It may had not much to do with the site. That being said, I am against the practice of bringing beginners off of solid objects. Though I did back in the day. I only ask that we don't lose sight of what happened because we don't want beginners on advance sites. If he had an object strike because of insufficient tracking, Then let it be known. If he had an impact because of an overdelay, let it be known. One has to do with skill, the other, brainlock. Ya gotta keepem seperated. take care, space Hey Tracy, I was in the valley yesterday. I did not see the jump, we jumped before them. I agree with you that pulling to late or impacting because of poor tracking are two different things. But I think both of them have to do with lack of skills. It was the jumpers second jump, I saw them packing befor the fatal jump and what I have heard is that he did a handheld jump earlier. So I think (but of I don't know it, it is only an assumption) brain look was not the issue. La Mouse is a very dificult jump. BASE1007 said it maybe in a bit a harsh way but throwing a first jumper of La Mouse is the most stupid thing one can do. If you have to do a frist jump in LB do it from Yellow but NEVER from La Mouse or the Nose. I don't know why these guys did that. I think eather it was massive wrong judgment, extreem stupidity or the just did not have a clue of what they where doing. I'm afraid that accidents like this will continue. BASE is not the underground thing anymore. Every idiot can buy a BASE Rig, a ticket to Switzerland and find the exits in LB. Today the media was in LB. I'm sure that if accidents like this continue the valley will be closed for jumping.Michi (#1068) hsbc/gba/sba www.swissbaseassociation.ch www.michibase.ch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwper 7 #21 November 19, 2006 Quotethe evasive behavior of the 2 "experienced" jumpers would indicate they KNEW they were cutting corners. This reminds me that if I'm jumping with a group and someone is doing something I think is really dumb, I need to be quite vocal about it. Who knows, I might save a life. Michael Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
321Cya 0 #22 November 19, 2006 Quoteresearch? The word research, that I quoted from LukeH's post, in this case would mean to find out everything about this site (there's a vast amount of information about this site available on the www) and the jumper would then have realized that this place is probably a little too advanced for somebody with his experience. After that it's up to the jumper's discrepency and that of his mentors to make the right decisions. However, as said in my earlier post, not all jumpers might be as well-informed as us for whatever reason. What could also be the case is that in his world or in his experience of the situation he and his mates might not have seen this as a big deal, simply because of different ethics and methods etc. Not trying to say I support their ways, en contraire. But it might not be as easy as it seems for all people to know and do what we know and do. As for the evasive behavior of the 2 "experienced" jumpers, 1.) "experienced", Has that been confirmed? Were they actually experienced? 2.) I am not so sure if they really KNEW that they were cutting corners. Perhaps you are right and they did, but in my experience with Eastern Europeans I know now that they behave/talk/react in ways that might sound like 'evasive' to you, but in fact isn't. J. www.vandrunen.ch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base915 0 #23 November 19, 2006 Quote If you have to do a frist jump in LB do it from Yellow but NEVER from La Mouse or the Nose. The previous 'beginner' death this year was from Yellow O. Hand held 1-2 sec delay with an offheading opening. Bouncing all the way down from the top. Horrific to watch. All jumps in the the valley are for experienced jumpers. The signs at the exit point need to be changed to reflect this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
321Cya 0 #24 November 19, 2006 Quote All jumps in the the valley are for experienced jumpers. Agreed J. www.vandrunen.ch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mikki_ZH 0 #25 November 19, 2006 QuoteQuote All jumps in the the valley are for experienced jumpers. Agreed J. Me tooMichi (#1068) hsbc/gba/sba www.swissbaseassociation.ch www.michibase.ch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
