Background checks, background checks, background checks, please!

[MyTwoCents 0]

Hey,

For fuck's sake people, it's not that hard.

If you're going to take the effort to put an add up on the classifieds and sell your BASE gear, you need to take fifteen minutes to do a background check.

That means you ask if they have BASE experience already. If they do, you check their references. You never have to go more than two degrees of separation to end up with a BASE jumper you know personally or has a solid reputation.

If they don't have BASE experience, you need at least two of the following three things:

• A confirmation from an FJC provider that shows they have signed up for a course in the near future.
  
• A confirmation from a local mentor who is willing to teach them and has sufficient experience to be a mentor (which you check through their own background check).
  
• A quick phone call to the buyer's dropzone to ask what kind of person they are, and what kind of skydiving they've been doing for the past hundred jumps.

If you can't even do these basic things, please don't sell your canopy. For all you know, you may sell a loaded gun to a lunatic. And I'm not concerned about them shooting themselves, I'm concerned about them burning my local objects.

Common sense people...

Tom, can you make this sticky?

[base283 0]

You are really going to motivate people with this posting style.(sarcasm).
Try a different style would be my tip to you.
Take care,
space

[sethgray 0]

The tone isn't the warmest and most fuzzy of all the messages I've read, but the message is one of serious concern that I also personally feel is being overlooked more and more with time.

BASE #958

[base283 0]

Well, if someone speaks to me like that in person, I wouldn't be receptive to the message. Name and shame would be a better way. Why is he classing everbody in the same group? Start a new thread without being condescending like the original poster. Why should I care about someone's local objects when they are as rude as that? One has 3 choices. Whine about it, Do something about it or ignore it. Throwing a blanket insult (whining) aint helping nuthin. There are many, more positive ways to go about it.
take care,
space

[Mac 1]

To be honest, this message should also extend to the people that run FJCs........ not only can selling a rig cause problems, but so can giving someone the confidence they can BASE jump........

I know of only 2 courses that check out people "IN DETAIL" before they do a FJC, and one of those do not partake in FJCs anymore....

Thanks to all the FJCs that let loose the rest to our small Island without a thought to the rest of us...

[MyTwoCents 0]

Hey,

For fuck's sake people, it's not that hard.

If you're going to take the effort to put an add up on the classifieds and sell your BASE gear, you need to take fifteen minutes to do a background check.

That means you ask if they have BASE experience already. If they do, you check their references. You never have to go more than two degrees of separation to end up with a BASE jumper you know personally or has a solid reputation.

If they don't have BASE experience, you need at least two of the following three things:

• A confirmation from an FJC provider that shows they have signed up for a course in the near future.
  
• A confirmation from a local mentor who is willing to teach them and has sufficient experience to be a mentor (which you check through their own background check).
  
• A quick phone call to the buyer's dropzone to ask what kind of person they are, and what kind of skydiving they've been doing for the past hundred jumps.

If you can't even do these basic things do this, please don't sell your canopy. For all you know, you may sell a loaded gun to a lunatic. And I'm not concerned about them shooting themselves, I'm concerned about them burning my local objects.

Common sense people...

[NSEMN8R 0]

Just out of curiousity... Say I'm going to sell a rig to a guy and I get the following answers to your 3 criteria.

Quote

If they don't have BASE experience, you need at least two of the following three things:

• A confirmation from an FJC provider that shows they have signed up for a course in the near future.
  
  Has signed up for an FJC.
  
  
• A confirmation from a local mentor who is willing to teach them and has sufficient experience to be a mentor (which you check through their own background check).
  
  Knows a guy with 50 or so jumps that will take him to the local A
  
  
• A quick phone call to the buyer's dropzone to ask what kind of person they are, and what kind of skydiving they've been doing for the past hundred jumps.
  
  Nice guy. Fairly well liked by most. DZO doesn't think he'll do anything too stupid. Past 100 skydives were mostly freefly/swooping

Would you sell him the rig?

[sethgray 0]

I wouldn't. Mostly because of the 'local mentor' factor (50 jumps isn't enough to be teaching others to jump in my oppinion). Also, around my neck of the woods A's aren't the easiest of jumps--due to bust--so the fact that the offer for initial objects were for A's would worry me as well. However, there are places where the A's are the safest and easiest objects around... so that part wouldn't necessarily be the same in every region. But I would think the 50 jump wonder instructor should be a concern no mater where you are.

BASE #958

[VincentVL. 0]

Quote

If you can't even do these basic things, please don't sell your canopy. For all you know, you may sell a loaded gun to a lunatic. And I'm not concerned about them shooting themselves, I'm concerned about them burning my local objects.

Sell it to someone overseas. Problem solved.

Here's another question for the prospective buyer with no experience: If you're going to kill yourself, why buy a parachute in the firstplace?

[MyTwoCents 0]

Quote

Would you sell him the rig?

I think so.

It would depend on how I felt about my conversations with the person itself.

Would it possibly to ship the canopy today (so he can make some skydives with it) and ship the container to Twin Falls (for his FJC)?

How many skydives does he have? You say they have been mostly freefly and swooping jumps, but it still makes a difference if he has two hundred or two thousand skydives.

It also depends on the reputation of the potential mentor. I've met guys with fifty BASE jumps that I believe can safely take somebody just off an FJC to their local "easy" objects. I've met guys with three hundred BASE jumps that I still don't think should be a mentor.

Sadly, I think the time has gone that people could do an FJC and come home to a wise old mentor with over four hundred BASE jumps. That said, I also think that these days there is a lot of information readily available. People with good judgement can responsibly do an FJC and go home to an environment that may not have the best mentor, but at least a crew of fellow beginners.

It's not ideal, but it's what we've got and must make do with.

Hey NSEMN8R, you jumped my Warlock in 2005, when are you gonna come visit up here?

[NSEMN8R 0]

Hey . I didn't realize that was you. You changed your name.. Thanks again for the hook up at BD05. If you're going to do something like that again let me know. I'd be happy to donate one of my rigs for the weekend.
And thanks for the invitation. I'll have to make a trip up there sometime. Likewise, if you're ever down this way, let me know. We're mostly into cheap beer and "boring low stuff", but we still manage to have a pretty good time.

[MyTwoCents 0]

Oh well...

[Calvin19 0]

hells yeah.

thats awesome. I have sold a skyhop rig on ebay, but damn thats sweet. the paraglider pilots bitch that people sell their wings to anyone off ebay, but this is even better.

why cant you do a background check for an ebay buyer? i did with the skyhop rig.

[jtholmes 0]

I am selling a base rig right now on right here on DZ.com

it is available to anyone with $1150,

unless. of course they strike me as a COMPLETE and total idiot, there are indeed a few people/ types i would not sell to but in general, i am just looking to free up some space in the closet.

if that person gets hurt or dies... well you know, that is the sort of thing that happens to base jumpers, quite frequently i might add.

uncle potato head

[stitch 0]

Quote

Would it possibly to ship the canopy today (so he can make some skydives with it) and ship the container to Twin Falls (for his FJC)?

In my limited experience, one of the 1st things someone teaching BASE wants a student to do is learn the pack-job. Without a container, that will leave out some important steps.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[wwarped 0]

this discussion reminds me of the gun debate in the US. some want to restrict trade in guns, others wish to blame their operators...

video (tv, movies, etc.) make it seem so easy, everyone thinks they know how to use one.

few realize all the care associated with proper use.

some skilled individuals desire to have NO restrictions on their activities.

many unskilled individuals desire to have NO restrictions on their activities as well.

collectively, the restrictions are designed to protect people from themselves.

given enough motivation, people will gain access somehow, and it may not be pretty... (block access to a proper rig, and some will simply use a skydiving rig.)

some will view carnage as justification for authorities to step in. the other side sees people failing to assume the responsibility associated with every right.

some desire background checks and cooling off periods...

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[greeny 0]

Quote:
[Given enough motivation, people will gain access somehow, and it may not be pretty... (block access to a proper rig, and some will simply use a skydiving rig.)]

Very, Very true!

CLIMBING is a free sport! Anybody who wants to can walk into a shop and buy all the latest toys, a nicely illustrated guide book and then go and kill them selves any way they like.

SAILING is also a free sport! Anybody who wants can buy a sailboat and set out with ZERO experiance to sail the world

PLEASE LET US KEEP BASE A FREE SPORT!

Who are you to say who can and who can not jump?

The only thing a newby with no mentor and not enouth skydives has on his side, is his BASE gear.

I lied about my skydive numbers.
I lied about having a mentor.
I soloed my first jumps,
But at leased I had BASE specific gear
and a video to teach me how to pack it.

Please sell the new guys the gear.
Please let them on your FJC's.
Please sell them the packing videos
(and every other video you can, it may be all the training they receive)
Please give them all the information you can even if you are not in a position to take them on to raise.

This is not 'Your Sport'
These are not 'Your Objects'

Like it or not, it is our world too.

Greeny

[n_pertuset 0]

I don't really think you could control rig distribution, and I don't really know why you would. Sure, you don't want idiots getting their hands on a BASE rig, but as wwarped said, some will revert to using a skydiving rig. And with the amount of jumpers, *someone* will sell them a rig. If you wouldn't sell me a rig, i would just go the next. Sooner or later i'll get my hands on one if I really want one.

Within about 5 minutes of searching forums or talking to people (assuming you know nothing about BASE) you can find out that ravens were once considered an awesome BASE canopy. If you try and cough up the $1500 for a new canopy, but no one will sell you one, ravens are cheap as hell, and pretty easy to get a hold of.

Idiots will come and go, as with anything else. I think it's hopeless trying to protect people from themselves (especially with the amount of upcoming jumpers). If someone is stupid enough to come upon a BASE rig and go use it.. well... hopefully there's good video.

Nathan

[Calvin19 0]

look at that. i totaly agree with the Mr ADHD motivation.

[leroydb 0]

Quote

This is not 'Your Sport'
These are not 'Your Objects'

Like it or not, it is our world too.

This is like picking the lesser of 2 evils. It dosen't make it right morally or ethically. While I agree it's not technically my sport nor object (it is our sport, and our objects), but tell me if you feel every muldoone needs to be able to jump if he/she want to?

Maybe this is the type of thought that people like NICKDG and other Old school BASE'rs say could be the downfall of BASE?

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[MyTwoCents 0]

Quote

CLIMBING is a free sport! Anybody who wants to can walk into a shop and buy all the latest toys, a nicely illustrated guide book and then go and kill them selves any way they like.

I'm a climber, trad, aid and sport. There is a huge difference. It's a lot harder to get yourself into trouble if you don't have experience. Most of the time, you just realize things are too hard and you descent from where you are.

You don't die.

Quote

SAILING is also a free sport! Anybody who wants can buy a sailboat and set out with ZERO experiance to sail the world

I'm a sailer. There is a huge difference. If you sail across an ocean and perish because of lack of experience, no legislation is going to stop other people from sailing across the ocean.

Quote

Who are you to say who can and who can not jump?

Nobody, and like I said in an earlier post, I have no intention of stopping people from killing themselves. Suicide is a relative scale and for some others even my BASE jumps look like suicide. Live and let live.

However...

Quote

These are not 'Your Objects'

Absolutely. However, we both share an equal responsibility in trying to keep access to the object at the level it is today, or improve it. That has nothing to do with BASE, that's just a common level decency that people living together accept.

The fact of the matter is, today I have a cliff that is legal to jump. A serious accident there would draw attention to it, and probably shut it down (given the precedent in surrounding cities).

[greeny 0]

MyTwoCents,

Relax my friend, this sport is growing and nothing you can do will stop it. I love the freedom of BASE that is why I jump. Accidents and publicity will happen. Objects will close, access will get harder. The uncomitted will fall by the wayside (life being too difficult for them). The few of use who stay will have to work a little harder, risk a little more for our jumps, but the sport will continue.

Refusing them gear and access to FJC's is not the way forward.

A lot serious accidents in BASE are not new jumpers.
A lot are the experienced guys pushing the limits, you better ban them from you little legal cliff too. Just in case they ruin it for you too.
If fact maybe you should keep it all to yourself, but that sounds a little selfish to me

Next your be telling me I can't come jump it??

Greeny

[greeny 0]

Quote: [Maybe this is the type of thought that people like NICKDG and other Old school BASE'rs say could be the downfall of BASE?]

I think rules and regulation will be the down fall of BASE.

My type of thought is freedom:

Jump what you want !
Jump where you want!
Jump when you want!

I don't think NICKDG would have a problem with my ethics!

Yes, Please teach them ethis, teach them every thing you can, but don't shut them out!

I just hate to think of BASEas a clicky little gang that you can't get into unless you know somebody.

Greeny

[leroydb 0]

Quote

I just hate to think of BASEas a clicky little gang that you can't get into unless you know somebody.

Greeny

Don't you think this is why it has lasted so long? Because people kept it underground, Because they usually picked the dedicated and experiaced people of that time?

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[sethgray 0]

Greeny,

It sounds like you feel ENTITLED to be a jumper... why is that?

What you label as 'clicky', I label as 'tight-knit', and I agree with Leroydb that this trait is one that has kept the sport alive, not hindered it.

And finally, the fact that you lied about all of those things to get gear and training really helps put your opinions and views in perspective.

-Seth

BASE #958