Confused? .. Why?

[n_pertuset 0]

I'm really confused. Why would anyone want to not use a PC for a static line? - especially from a height of 150'+ where it's still possible for full inflation? i mean.. if you're jumping <100' over land, and you're screwed either way, ...

are we going to have some fatalities soon from heights people freefall (170'+) because someone took their PC off and there was a premature breakage??

if i'm missing something/not understanding something... fill me in. it just seems like a horrible idea.

Nathan

[Calvin19 0]

i thought this was going to be a poll you pussy.

I agree,

but nate, man, 100' is still possible to free fall and live. even at 80 SLs take a pc. make it a big one.

[mysty429 0]

Shortish (150') building jumps with a fence (or light pole, rubbish, tall elephants, etc) to clear might be one example.

The question is: Is there a way to make it as safe as possible?

-Taylor
"Can't plan fantastic!!!!!"

[hookitt 1]

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... even at 80 SLs take a pc. make it a big one.

There's a reason for that. It all depends when the break happens. The only premature break I'm aware of, the canopy was just being extracted when the break cord busted. The Pilot chute took over and saved the day.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[vid666 0]

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... even at 80 SLs take a pc. make it a big one.

There's a reason for that. It all depends when the break happens. The only premature break I'm aware of, the canopy was just being extracted when the break cord busted. The Pilot chute took over and saved the day.

there was (is ???) video on sdmovies of a SL antenna jump where the SL breaks (no idea how it was rigged) right after exit - and the PC extracts the canopy (i *think* it was a jump in S. America). I don't see how that would of been survivable without the PC.

[TomAiello 26]

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... even at 80 SLs take a pc. make it a big one.

There's a reason for that. It all depends when the break happens. The only premature break I'm aware of, the canopy was just being extracted when the break cord busted. The Pilot chute took over and saved the day.

there was (is ???) video on sdmovies of a SL antenna jump where the SL breaks (no idea how it was rigged) right after exit - and the PC extracts the canopy (i *think* it was a jump in S. America). I don't see how that would of been survivable without the PC.

I know of one case in which a similar premature break (with no PC) was survived, very early on. I believe that the jumper actually flailed enough to elbow the canopy out (either that or he flopped around enough that it fell out to one side--depends on if you believed the jumper or the others watching), got partial inflation, and survived the impact.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Calvin19 0]

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... even at 80 SLs take a pc. make it a big one.

There's a reason for that. It all depends when the break happens. The only premature break I'm aware of, the canopy was just being extracted when the break cord busted. The Pilot chute took over and saved the day.

there was (is ???) video on sdmovies of a SL antenna jump where the SL breaks (no idea how it was rigged) right after exit - and the PC extracts the canopy (i *think* it was a jump in S. America). I don't see how that would of been survivable without the PC.

I know of one case in which a similar premature break (with no PC) was survived, very early on. I believe that the jumper actually flailed enough to elbow the canopy out (either that or he flopped around enough that it fell out to one side--depends on if you believed the jumper or the others watching), got partial inflation, and survived the impact.

ok... for our FJC leaders out there,
when teaching PC-less 150' Static line jumps where you need to clear a fence and trees by a small amount, remember to tell students to be ready to flail around as soon as they exit, it could save their life.

[TomAiello 26]

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ok... for our FJC leaders out there,
when teaching PC-less 150' Static line jumps where you need to clear a fence and trees by a small amount, remember to tell students to be ready to flail around as soon as they exit, it could save their life.

I've always taught them to FJC students with the PC attached, as a backup.

What you decide to teach to students, and what you decide to do for yourself are two very different things. When you're teaching, someone else is trusting you with their safety, so you generally teach the most conservative techniques possible. When you are jumping for yourself, you set your own level of risk, and use whatever techniques fit that level.


edit because I forgot that Lonnie also taught static line in his FJC

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Calvin19 0]

im just being sarcastic with all of this...

if i ever teach SLs (and i wouldnt, i see no point in jumping something you cant freefall) the PC will be ATTATCHED. period.

but, if some see the need, or they are geographicaly limited for exits, then go for it, short bridal no PC SLs, or SL on bridal/canopy connection.

but i STILL SAY DO A FREAKING DBAG.

but this is a free sport. and it should remain that way.

[Twoply 0]

Pc's sometimes get in the way of video.

[n_pertuset 0]

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Pc's sometimes get in the way of video.

very true..
see mike.. that's all ya had to say.
*that* is a valid reason.

i should have known that. oh well.. i'm still learning...

Nathan

[MMK 0]

Appologies in advance for my ignorance.

I note from a number of your responses that you are a fan of the D-Bag, which I have not seen in action, but I think I know what you are referring to.

I thought that in BASE, D-Bag means "Direct Bag" (a direct bag is held by someone standing at the exit--it never leaves the object). [Quote from Tom in a different thread].
So, if I am alone or the last one off, how do you suggest I overcome the issue of, well, being without anyone to hold the D-Bag? Unfortunately I have not met anyone around my place who is happy to free-fall after they have D-Bagged me (which sounds very wrong).
I like the various (recent) discussions on SL and have read all the personal views and opinions by individuals - they made me review my procedures and I am content with what I do with SL jumps. What do I do, who cares - I think it is about what makes you feel comfy. The two rubber band, no bridle & PC with the break cord at the canopy all makes sense to me, however, the added complexity and the fact I don't have a PC does go against the grain what I belive works for me - which does not mean it is wrong, just personally, it is not for me.

Just My Penny - 'No comments are meant to offend individuals and are purely a personal view presented by myself'.

[mysty429 0]

Calvin, I very much respect your innovation and creativeness with all sports you do... thanks again for the rope jumps. But, why put down the idea of pushing the limits safely with SL jumps? This is starting to sound like another.... What is a real BASE jump thread.

I actually enjoy the funk (some of the big afro kind) SL jumps that require some creative rigging, clearing some funky objects, or just plane smiling for the fiance from the top. It's a wonderful way for me to take my rigging knowledge from Big Wall climbing to BASE.

-Taylor
"Can't plan fantastic!!!!!"

[Calvin19 0]

if your alone or the last one off, you cant do a Direct-Bag, (dbag),

i have thought of ways you could do it, but i dont want to test them.

your not ignorant, i should have specified direct bag, not dbag.

if you object is cliff, of abandind A, or bridge, or even building, i would say just leave the dbag there, and retreive it afterward. or have GC do the dbag, and then rap down, etc.

I hope no one will freefall what you are SLing!

again, if the no pc method works for you, i have no problem with it.

the original post was asking for other jumper input, i gave mine.

so, in my personal little jumping world, that is very different from a lot of other peoples, i would never do it. 9' or longer bridal, with a PC sized correctly. actualy, PCAs and SLs are only in desperation, and i would prefer a dbag. I also agree that i like the way my blackjack flys without a bridal.

[GreenMachine 0]

i like the way my blackjack flys without a bridal

All canopies fly better without extra things
attached to top of them. Most pro swoopers
actually REMOVE their sliders, d-bags, and
pilot chutes for less drag & more speed.

When ground launching with my Dagger 266
of course I removed my shrivel flap & pc.

Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM

[Carpediem 0]

I once was about to exit off a lowish A with wind at ~45 degrees. A gust caused my PC and carrywith to "take off", sliding down the railing to stretch. I grabbed my bridle at the last second to keep it from possibly opening my container. Sure did wish I didn't have a PC on that one.

Solutions:
-have it tied off somewhere it can't slide (and possibly snag/loose your carrywith)
-have PC in hand and toss clear on exit.
-stand on your PC
-don't use a PC

When it's windy it's a pain in the ass on SL jumps, but i'll always keep it, just in case

Those who do, can't explain. Those who don't, can't understand.

[DrThrill 0]

Solo d-bag, no problem just use some jeans!

Maybe Spacey Tracy will throw in his two cents re solo D-bagging waaay back in the day in tejas. He would use an old pair of jeans as the D-bag, attaching the rubber bands to the belt lops for line stowage and packing the canopy into the ass-trunk of the jeans. I think he would sew across the bottom of the legs to make the d-bag proper closed, but would leave the blue jean legs attached so that he could tie them around something on the little towers he was lopping off solo somewhere in S. texas at the time.

He had some HILARIOUS stories about these episodes and some related epics, the details of which I forget, maybe he'll chime in here, nevertheless, he claimed it to be a solid technique that he used for years. It makes sense.

DT

"If you are not a part of the Solution, you are a part of the Precipitate"

[TVPB 0]

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but nate, man, 100' is still possible to free fall and live. even at 80 SLs take a pc. make it a big one.

Freefalling over hard earth at 100'??? What is your definition of "live"? FOr that matter, what did you mean by possible?

Freefall chart:

Freefall Time (sec) Speed (mph) Distance Fallen (ft)
1 10 16
2 31 62
3 51 138
4 70 242

P.S. Always use a pilot chute. And never trust someone to PCA you without the PC!!!

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[Calvin19 0]

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but nate, man, 100' is still possible to free fall and live. even at 80 SLs take a pc. make it a big one.

Freefalling over hard earth at 100'??? What is your definition of "live"? FOr that matter, what did you mean by possible?
!!

what do you think my definition of 'possible' is?

im not going to do it, but with a small canopy, 46"pc, 9' bridal, a -PIN- rig, i think one would live. and by live i mean you will live.

ps- i doubt vents would matter at that point. but they wouldnt hurt, well, maybe they would make the canopy heavier...

PPS- im not going to do it. and havent

[n_pertuset 0]

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PPS- im not going to do it.

weak.
... shovels!

Nathan

[Calvin19 0]

your the flatlander with something around 100 SLs... you should do it.

[n_pertuset 0]

so this thread hasn't really made any progress.

i'm seriously wondering why people want to not use a pc on s/l.

Nathan

[Calvin19 0]

Oh... someone said that they needed to clear a fencem and thats why you were trying to get rid of PC for SL jumps...

solution- buy a blackjack with zp

[TomAiello 26]

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i'm seriously wondering why people want to not use a pc on s/l.

The only real answer is "because they want to."


When I first met Dwain Weston, he was talking about throwing aerials from under 200'. I asked him "why would you want to do that?" and he looked at me kind of funny and said "why would you want to BASE jump?" Same answer: just because I/you/they want to.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Calvin19 0]

ahh!!!!

dont get mad at me... i think you should do what you want.

im just saying that if you dont have to clear a tree or fence or whatever, then there is no point and its not worth the risk(to me) to do a SL without a PC.

in those few situations were you need to clear something... double that shit up and do it right...

and have a blast.

sorry, i was not bashing it... just answering the questions in other thread. . . .


dont go in.