Just bought my beloved Dainese body armor jacket today - (hard opening related)

[Butters 0]

The point I'm trying to make is that when it comes to risk there isn't a right or wrong ... there are just different people accepting different levels. This does not make anyone more or less stupid. The people who are stupid are the people who accept less risk but go along with someone who accepts more risk or the people who accept more risk and place others who accept less risk in danger (this is the situation involving the TI).

You accept more risk by skydiving than someone who doesn't skydive ... by your logic that makes you stupid. Be careful judging others because others are judging you.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[MyTwoCents 0]

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You accept more risk by skydiving than someone who doesn't skydive ... by your logic that makes you stupid. Be careful judging others because others are judging you.

That's relativism at its worst.

Coffee is warmer than soda, lava is warmer than coffee. It's okay to drink soda and coffee, hence we establish it's fine to drink lava.

By your argument somebody doing a 200 foot underhung cliff with a slider up Sabre 170 and a 28 inch pilotchute isn't retarded. He's just doing his own risk analysis.

Sure, in some universe. Not in mine.

I'm not saying that I agree with Autoset's judgment, but he's certainly entitled to his opinion. And to be honest, his opinion is not far from mine. I've witnessed too much pain that could have been avoided with better protection.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's perfectly fine to uphold personal (fluid) views on an absolute standard of what is risk management and what is moronic.

[autoset 0]

Dude whatever, this started as a simple Fashion vs Safety thing and now it's about risks?

Of course there are risks, and you must accept them or you shouldn't be jumping, but in anyone's eyes wuffo or not, sacrifying safety for fashion is a stupid thing to do anywhere not just skydiving, and my mama says stupid is as stupid does

I always quote bill booth because the guy knows his shit, he's been in the sport more time than any of us and still alive, he's older, he's got more experience and he's the owner of a top rig manufactury company, if you come up with something to minimize the risks and improve safety in the sport...if it doesn't look cool...people won't buy it.

Extreme Examples:
-"Wow I feel like riding my Ducati 999 on the highway to impress the chicks, but I only have my sisters pink helmet, I think I won't wear a helmet this time."

-"NASA engineer: Bob we need those ceramic plates to protect the astronauts in the space shuttle cockpit from the fatal heat"
-Bob: Eeewww no way, they are too ugly!, look at their color!

BTW I could give 2 shits about people judging me, big fucking deal.

[Butters 0]

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You accept more risk by skydiving than someone who doesn't skydive ... by your logic that makes you stupid. Be careful judging others because others are judging you.

That's relativism at its worst.

The original poster was calling people who use Mini 3-Rings instead of Standard 3-Rings stupid (w/out knowing the type and size of canopy, pull altitude, etc...). The risk difference between someone who does and someone who doesn't skydive is greater than the risk difference between someone who skydives and uses Standard 3-Rings and someone who skydives and uses Mini 3-Rings. Thus my relativism is much better than yours. I was trying to get the OP to be a little more hesistant about calling people stupid.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[MyTwoCents 0]

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Thus my relativism is much better than yours.

Best... sentence... ever.

[Butters 0]

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Thus my relativism is much better than yours.

Best... sentence... ever.

I'm glad you got it.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[460 0]

You look pretty sexy in that picture, autoset.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[460 0]

I broke a rib on a hard opening once. I nearly got pneumonia from it since I couldn't cough without experiencing extreme pain.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[autoset 0]

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I broke a rib on a hard opening once. I nearly got pneumonia from it since I couldn't cough without experiencing extreme pain.

How do the doctors fix a broken rib? do they to cut thru the skin, muscle,etc and put everything back together with screws and stuff or they just make you wear a brace?

[TomAiello 26]

Butters, Autoset, Andy_Copland,

I just removed the bicker-fest from the end of this thread. Could you guys cut that out, please?

Saying that someone is illiterate _is_ a personal attack. It's also fairly silly when the bottom line is that you disagree, not that they aren't reading what you wrote.

Posting links to other threads people have posted in other forums, on unrelated topics, is a ludicrously silly debating tactic. Why not just state your opinion on the issues in _this_ thread? If you can't formulate opinions about them, or you don't have any, why poke a stick in to stir things up by trying to revive another, unrelated debate?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[nicrussell 0]

isnt this the BASE zone? what does it matter to have smaller rings on your 3 ring system. i never plan on cutting away my canopy while i am flying it. much more dangerous than a spinning mal.

I wear a lot of body armor on some jumps, i wear almost none (helmet only) on some. each jump is different. but then again you dont know that felling yet do you? not to harsh on you but go back up to the skydiving related threads. but dont call things stupid when YOU HAVE NO IDEA what people are thinking while looking at pictures and videos of THEIR BASE jumps.

and if you choose to wear full body armor for your SKYDIVES, awesome, good for you, hope you'll never need it. just dont judge others of which you know little or nothing about.

-nic

[jakee 1,489]

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Dude whatever, this started as a simple Fashion vs Safety thing and now it's about risks?

Of course there are risks, and you must accept them or you shouldn't be jumping, but in anyone's eyes wuffo or not, sacrifying safety for fashion is a stupid thing to do anywhere not just skydiving, and my mama says stupid is as stupid does

Safety is not just opposed to fashion, it can also be opposed to such things as performance, functionality and comfort. Can you imagine, for instance, a 4-way team (or anyone) doing 10/ 15/ 20 jumps a day in summer heat with full body armour on? How badly would that suck?

Skydiving without body armour or large rings is not stupid in anyones book.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Ether 0]

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How do the doctors fix a broken rib? do they to cut thru the skin, muscle,etc and put everything back together with screws and stuff or they just make you wear a brace?

Nope, for anything where the bones are in (more or less) the right place, they will just tape you up. For most fractures these days, they don't even use any bracing or tape, since motion speeds the healing process, and the mend will be stronger. Plus don't forget to self-medicate with lots of beer (and optionally herbal stuff ) and calcium.

Looking for newbie rig, all components...

[GreenMachine 0]

I believe "Autoset" is referring to skydiving gear
and not BASE, hence my comments are in that vein:

The amount of force required to cut-away is not really
affected by the width of the riser. The size & shape of
the rings has an affect (or Aerodyne would not have
modified their middle ring) but I doubt it would be
a very noticeable difference during a malfunction.

In physics and life there are always trade offs --- think
of a motorcycle versus an SUV -- different speeds, cost,
consumption of gas, freedom of movement, etc. Or take
2 different body types -- tall and thin works great for long
distance running while strong & stocky works better for rugby.

If you want to lift a heavy load one can use pulleys to create a
mechanical advantage. Well the 3 ring system works like that
in reverse. Each ring takes less force than the previous one.
Think about it, the rings are metal but the last one is held in
place by a loop of fabric, and that is held in place by a thin,
yellow, plastic cable.

Mini risers are thinner so they have less drag, weigh less, and
are probably easier to manipulate under canopy but can break
when put under a sufficient load. Wide risers are more stout
so they can take more weight/force -- hence they are used on
tandem gear, base gear, & student gear.

I doubt many experienced skydivers think
of mini risers as a fashion statement

Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM

[cresTfall 0]

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How do the doctors fix a broken rib? do they to cut thru the skin, muscle,etc and put everything back together with screws and stuff or they just make you wear a brace?

Nope, for anything where the bones are in (more or less) the right place, they will just tape you up. For most fractures these days, they don't even use any bracing or tape, since motion speeds the healing process, and the mend will be stronger. Plus don't forget to self-medicate with lots of beer (and optionally herbal stuff ) and calcium.

Wrong. Ribs are left to heal on their own if properly aligned, stable and not impedeing or impaling something else, heart and lungs most importantly. If any fracture is grossly malaligned, it must be reduced and fixed, fixed meaning stabilized. Fractures must remain stable to properly heal; motion of an unstable fracture normally will cause excruciating pain and inefficient healing. This is why both external and internal (halos and tibial rods) fixation may be utilized based on severity and location of a particular fractures. The motion aids healing bit is absolute nonsense, further along in the healing process it may stoke enhanced bone reproduction, but definitely not for some time. There is likely someone with really high pain tolerance that could put pressure on a fractured bone temporarily, but that can cause many long term problems including residual damage, not to mention the potential for deformities.

Also, drinking alcohol in excess with a healing fracture, while I know is hard to resist, is generally a bad idea. In part because it is a diuretic and you need the minerals and hydration, but there are more reasons. Smoking cigarettes with a healing fracture, also a really bad idea. There are certain herbs that will work well to relieve pain, some are more well known and harder to come by than others.

Body armor may not decrease the rate of fractures that occur from hard openings, but I guess anything is possible. The problem may lie in the fact that the compression rate is too high for all of your abdominal contents and the fracture may be generated by internal pressure from forced overexpansion combined with compression following opening shock rather than excessive external force from a main lift web or chest strap, something has to give. If the hard opening is offheading and your body is "expecting" to go another way, the torsion created will contribute also. I guess it depends on how you look at it.

just my .02

Premier Member IGPA
2009 IGPA Overall Champion

WWTAD

[Ether 0]

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The motion aids healing bit is absolute nonsense, further along in the healing process it may stoke enhanced bone reproduction, but definitely not for some time. There is likely someone with really high pain tolerance that could put pressure on a fractured bone temporarily, but that can cause many long term problems including residual damage, not to mention the potential for deformities.

Okay; I'm no doctor. I'm just quoting what they told me in the hospital, and I got no tape. My fractures were indeed pretty minor -- as tiny as they can be and still be called fractures -- so maybe this is the cheap Canadian medical system at work, or maybe this treatment was only applicable to situations as minor as mine.

Looking for newbie rig, all components...

[bob.dino 1]

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* The back-protector places the container a distance from your back and therefore placed the BOC in a different spot to what I'm used to. I sometimes remove it when I just want chest and limb protection.

Autoset: this may prevent you from using the Dainese armour as a student in a skydiving environment.

My opinion, as a non-instructor, is that you'd be better served practicing your PLRs.

[Bigwallmaster 0]

* There are snags galore on these Dainese units. I always wear a long-sleeved top over the entire thing. I've seen jumpers use these without anything over them and thay look like snag-city, particularly when going HH. Also make sure the bottom of the back-protector is tucked into your pants and not exposed as a bridle caught under here via a lazy pitch or aerial will likely not release in anytime soon.


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Damn good advice here! I have jumped a Dainese sans over shirt etc. and I will certainly take these steps the next time I use it.

Cheers,

JP

[autoset 0]

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* The back-protector places the container a distance from your back and therefore placed the BOC in a different spot to what I'm used to. I sometimes remove it when I just want chest and limb protection.

Autoset: this may prevent you from using the Dainese armour as a student in a skydiving environment.

My opinion, as a non-instructor, is that you'd be better served practicing your PLRs.

I don't think I will experience any problems because of the thickness of the back protector, thickness is 2 or 2.5 inches at most, when properly adjusted it feels a little weird until you get used to it like any other new stuff you try. It's the same as if you had overdeveloped back muscles or too much fat.

I have wore it at home with a backpack acting as a rig (don't have my own yet) and it's just comfortable.

I will be jumping with it tomorrow, see how it goes.