mjosparky 4 #26 March 30, 2004 Quotefrom the tricks of getting a racer or a wings or a reflex pop top to snuggle down The only way to get a reflex pop top to "snuggle" down is to have 3 hands and drive a car over it. That said, your post was very well put and just about covers it. Thanks, SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #27 March 30, 2004 Quotelots of good points brought up in this thread and a few cases of thin skins... people need to look at the observations as points to pay special attention to, if it applies to them, great, learn and get better, if it doesn't don't sweat it. I've seen some really weird stuff come past me... things that the previous rigger missed... no big deal, someone caught it and fixed it... sometimes a call to the previous rigger is an appreciated "thanks man" and other times it's a defensive diatribe... if you're professional and really care about what you're doing... ie, saving people's lives, if you make a mistake and get called on it... it's not a matter of someone having a dick measuring contest, it should be seen as a fellow professional helping you to improve.... another comment about the skydiver knowing when his equipment is due... I think skydivers should keep track of this stuff, but the reality of the situation is that they don't in many cases, many skydivers have fallen for this line of marketing bullshit about how this is safer than driving your car.... bs... you're jumping out of a plane for the love of god, yes we have good equipment etc... but you're still jumping out of a plane... have respect for the risks and learn your equipment... at our last safety day we had 3 jumpers go through emergency procedures in reverse and then argue the point with an S&TA... they had started at a ripcord dropzone with a single point cutaway... then bought modern systems and never, no even once, thought to ask what the difference was in the two handles... just figured that since they learned on a rig with one handle on the left side that they should go ahead and pull the silver first and then the extra one for good measure... actual quote by the way... I hate to say it, but it's our job to keep an eye on these kids... they want to play but want someone else to pack it, clean it, maintain it and fix everything for them.... product of our spoiled society... that's why we can make the big bucks.... another point about the rigger mills, I agree that short courses don't produce quality riggers immediately, it's just impossible to cram expereince into that amount of time... there's nothing wrong with that as long as they know their limitations and work with a more experienced rigger and continue to improve their knowledge base.... I have a serious prob with those that walk out after a week and a half and actually believe that they know it all, they are dangerous... I got lucky and was in a position where I had a master rigger and a seriously over qualified senior rigger willing to spend months with me filling my head with information and walking me through everything, from the tricks of getting a racer or a wings or a reflex pop top to snuggle down, to how to deal with several different types of diapers, to dealing with ballistically spread military canopies..... I got lucky, some don' t have this luxuary and the only way they have to go is through the mill...it's all of our duties to police ourselves and help each other out--- if someone calls you and tells you of a mistake that you made, don't get pissy, say thank you and learn from it... i was once told that all riggers make mistakes, the good ones learn and improve and the great ones catch the mistake before it gets out the door Praise the Lord! errr... What he said!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #28 March 30, 2004 QuoteThe only way to get a reflex pop top to "snuggle" down is to have 3 hands and drive a car over it. That cracked me up.. it's not difficult though My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #29 March 30, 2004 QuoteI also informed the owner, who was quite up-set about it. I know everything about what I'm wearing on my back before I get on the plane, and I never assume that anyone is looking out for my best interest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #30 March 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteI also informed the owner, who was quite up-set about it. I know everything about what I'm wearing on my back before I get on the plane, and I never assume that anyone is looking out for my best interest. This attitude will probably allow you to live to a ripe old age. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #31 March 30, 2004 Very well said! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #32 March 30, 2004 Well it's still early, so I'll try to keep my whining (not whinning, sp?) to a minimum...........lol My only point of contention from your first post, was and still is, all riggers are capable of making mistakes, not just new ones. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #33 March 30, 2004 I agree, Dart. I wonder, just how many folks out there have ever 'failed' to fill-out a packing card, crimp a lead seal, use 'E'-thread to tack risers rather than 3-cord cotton on certain pilot rigs. I think, failing to check an AAD, is pretty serious but, things happen. I've got to agree with you, we all make mistakes and we're gonna' make mistakes. I think, for what it's worth, it's how we 'handle' it. I think it's good, that we 'police' ourselves. It beats the heck outa what one master rigger/DPRE I know in our area. He doesn't even attempt to contact the rigger. He finds a 'mistake' he fires-off a letter to the FAA. That's WRONG! Like one man said in this thread, it's best if we 'catch it before it gets out the door". We just have to stay on our toes and accept the fact we are human and vulnerable. There've been some good points made in this thread. For what it's worth. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #34 March 30, 2004 Good points too Chuck. I have under 50 reserve packs admittedly, so I would say my "advice" is to be taken with a grain of salt, but I would offer any rigger this idea. I use a "worksheet" as a I perform a repack, everything from checking cypres cycle charge, 4yr date, canopy condition, etc, from A to Z, I have a list of everything I want to inspect and everything I want to service on a form list. I check it all as a I go, and I even scribble any minor or major damage I might find along the way, so I have an accurate record of what to tell the customer. This way, when I am finished and seal the rig, I have a written (visual) que that I did everything I was supposed to. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #35 March 30, 2004 Hey, Tom! I used to use a legal pad, when I first started. After going through Sandy Reid's school, he gave us a form like they use at RI. It works great for me. I'm one of those who has to use a 'check-list'. Even though I've I&R'd many reserves, I have to use that list. (Maybe a result of the '60's.) Whatever it takes. My instructor, for my Senior cert. told me that and I've stuck with it. It might save an embarrasing phone call or even worse! It's all a learning curve. Good luck to you! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #36 March 30, 2004 QuoteThe only way to get a reflex pop top to "snuggle" down is to have 3 hands and drive a car over it. Or, just learn how to pack... It's really not that hard. Just make sure you've got a nice deep crater in the middle of the packjob. Same a for a Javelin. Now, over-stuffing a pop-top...that certainly complicates things. But it's all about the cool factor of having too small a rig, right!?! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #37 March 30, 2004 Then, there are the 'periodic' re-sets of the pilotchute cap. Jump Shack came-up with a great idea on their harness-containers... smaller container... smaller pilotchute cap. Same spring. You are so right about getting a nice, deep 'hollow' for the compressed pilotchute! After compressing the pilotchute and temp-pinning it, I'll reach in under the flap and move the bagged canopy material out and away from the center with my thumbs at the top and bottom of the container. I do that on any semi or pop-top pilotchute. Yeah, the 'little' ones are a %&$@#! It's all good! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #38 March 30, 2004 I know how to pack thank you, and yes it that hard. Collapse the PC while flopping the rig over to pull the T-bokin out and not trapping the pull cord or the closing loop in the spring coils. It is way over engineered, for little or no gain. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #39 March 30, 2004 Hi, Sparky! I used to have a devil of a time with Racers and Reflexes and Strong pilot rigs, till I started using a compression strap. I made one out of Type-12 and some 2" Velcro. I later got another with the Cypres Rigger's kit. Just a thought. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #40 March 30, 2004 Tom, Thank you. Wish I'd said it that way the first time. I just cannot type that long!!!! Tell Rob and the guys J.E. said Hello. Again, great job, on the point, and appreciated. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #41 March 30, 2004 DamN spell cjheck! Okay here is your cheze to go aloong weth it! Love ya Girl!!!!!!!! Blues, j.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #42 March 30, 2004 I have got one I use on Strong rigs, type 4 with grommets, but I have found that the best way to handle a Reflex is just say "No" SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #43 March 30, 2004 Old dog, new tricks????? Or, are you just sounding like my wife????? Sorry Sparky, the devil made me do it................... Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #44 March 30, 2004 I wish, I had that choice! We've got one or two at our little ol' DZ and so... I really don't mind them. It's just keeping the cap 'down' after a few jumps. It's like the &$%@* thing is on Viagra... pops-up when you don't want it to! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #45 March 30, 2004 I've got one of those too, with the grommets and the steel pin? I like the Velcro type. Just gotta be sure not to 'drag' the hook side through! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #46 March 31, 2004 QuoteI've got one of those too, with the grommets and the steel pin? I like the Velcro type. Just gotta be sure not to 'drag' the hook side through! Chuck You ever wonder why most rigger tools are hand made by the rigger? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #47 March 31, 2004 Yessir! Fortunately, I know welders, metal workers and blacksmiths. Got real good deals on 'T'-bars, closing plates, templates for harness stitch patterns... all sorts of things. If it could be sewn... i made it. At a 'Racer Seminar', I watched a rigger toss one of those 'fancy, store-bought' 'T'bars right-out the hangar door... it broke! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #48 March 31, 2004 QuoteI know how to pack thank you, and yes it that hard. So do I, and no it's not. It does take some technique and a bit of learning. I'm sure, if you're interested in learning a bit, someone near you could help you out with it. Learning never stops...saying it's hard just means you haven't got all the tricks lined up yet! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #49 March 31, 2004 QuoteQuoteI know how to pack thank you, and yes it that hard. So do I, and no it's not. It does take some technique and a bit of learning. I'm sure, if you're interested in learning a bit, someone near you could help you out with it. Learning never stops...saying it's hard just means you haven't got all the tricks lined up yet! What ever you say. I say it is not a rigger friendly design and I chose not to pack them. Having put in my 30 years and now being retired has some advantages.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #50 March 31, 2004 There is much value in having a rig that does not require having tricks lined up.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
