Ok, I wanna overload a Smart Reserve...

[freeflyfree 0]

So, how do they land loaded above 1.7?? anybody? or where could I get a demo?, and, do they follow PD packing volume? If I get a 120 Smart is it going to be really a 130???? or isit PIA?...Also refrain from posting the whole unconcious landing deal...I'm aware of it and I'm taking that risk...just like I took the risk to jump out of an airplane...I'm landing a 120 elliptical right now, and have attended various canopy flying seminars...but when I've asked the question of landing overloaded reserves...the speakers have taken the legal easy route of telling me to demo one...so...again where can I find a demo for a Smart?, thanks


Felipe

--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

[VectorBoy 0]

Even the guys with teenie tiny mains fly bigger real reserves. Well the ones that I know personaly. They probably fear a blown up reserve more than they fear a two out with tiny main with modest reserve.

[airtwardo 7]

  Quote

the speakers have taken the legal easy route

***
Or~

The 'speakers' are trying to tell you something that you're not hearing.

C license...500 jumps over 8 years,
No offense intended,
but I'm guessing the 'legal' answer you're
getting is politeness.

You may want to reconsider your thinking.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mjosparky 4]

I say go ahead and load your 7 cell, F-111 type material reserve to 1.7 or even 1.8. Then you should go to church everyday and pray you never have to use it. I guarantee it will bit you in the ass. Being willing to take the risk does not change the fact it is foolish. jmo
Sparky
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO BRAINS...

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[freeflyfree 0]

  Quote

C license...500 jumps over 8 years,
No offense intended,
but I'm guessing the 'legal' answer you're
getting is politeness

That's cool, politness is cool, very good reply. And youre polite too and you make your point' also, I don't want to be a smart ass (no pun intended) but it's really hard to get info on how overloaded PDs an Smarts and dash-Ms and R-Maxs land...so I was looking for experiences.......and I'm drunk also..so let me reply tomorrow when the self preservation mode kicks back in....it's funny what alcohol and an "quiet" non jumping saturday does to you.. but nontheless keep the opinions pouring..


Felipe

--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

[Unstable 9]

Here is what I have heard and understood this argument to be about - Understand that I have limited experience...

The manufacturer designs and tests their reserve canopies until they fully understand their operating limitations. Have you ever read what these people put their products through?? It's amazing! When they put their limitations on the lable, they know what they are talking about. When you decide that it is safe to push a reserve beyond it's manufacturers recomended limits, isn't that the same as saying you know more than the manufacturer , IMHO?

Blue Ones,

=========Shaun ==========

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Why don't you contact Aerodyne and ask them?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[seal_S49 0]

  Quote

the speakers have taken the legal easy route of telling me to demo one

There is no "easy" route and their reasons may be as much moral as they are legal. An intelligent, responsible person will not want to give you any advice that could easily results in your injury, even if you are game to try this wing loading on a reserve. I think that their self-restaint from criticizing your intent is admirable. I won't criticize it either.

  Quote

where could I get a demo?

You should be talking directly to the manufaturer for a demo ride. During my last demo experience, the manufacturer referred me to a retailer from whom I could borrow one or their canopies.

  Quote

Also refrain from posting the whole unconcious landing deal...I'm aware of it

And are you aware of the possibility of fatal opening shock? Even if the canopy survives, you may not. There has already been a fatality in the U.S. in which the cause of death was concluded to have been internal injuries from opening shock of an overloaded reserve. The human body has a G-force limitation...

Choose carefully--it's an important decision.

[scottjaco 0]

What size reserves do people who fly sub 100 mains generally use?

Lets just say, I see A LOT of small containers that look like they couldn't hold anything larger than a 120 reserve.

[tbrown 26]

The manufacturer designs and tests their reserve canopies until they fully understand their operating limitations. Have you ever read what these people put their products through?? It's amazing! When they put their limitations on the lable, they know what they are talking about. When you decide that it is safe to push a reserve beyond it's manufacturers recomended limits, isn't that the same as saying you know more than the manufacturer , IMHO

[freeflyfree 0]

  Quote

Lets just say, I see A LOT of small containers that look like they couldn't hold anything larger than a 120 reserve

Exactly..and they tell me they land nicely...when I asked a friend who had a 109 Dash-MZ if he had landed it...he said "I just swooped it"...I just see a lot of PDR 113 and 126s around my DZ on people as heavy as I am...(we have a lot of outs)...so I guess you'll have to demo them right, cause other wise it seems to be something of a don't ask don't tell kind of thing...I'm ordering a PDR 126 to demo one of these days...

Felipe

--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

[freeflyfree 0]

  Quote

the weight limits on reserves were absolute. [...] I would think that exceeding the weight limits for any given reserve would void the TSO and that you would thus be jumping an illegal rig

I think even some of the smallest reserves are rated to over 200 lbs. ,

--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

[seal_S49 0]

  Quote

but that the weight limits on reserves were absolute.

There are two sets of limits: (1) TSO specifies the maximum weight and speed the assembly can withstand without failure. That doesn't mean you will like the opening or landing under those conditions, (2) Manufactures often place lower recommended weight and speed limits that represent a more realistic loading for a survivable opening and landing.

Although many jumpers exceed the manufacturers recommendations, few exceed the TSO specs because they are so much higher.

[skygod7777 0]

  Quote

What size reserves do people who fly sub 100 mains generally use?

i'm not sure what size people "generally" use, but i know i jump a 85 vx with a tempo 150 reserve. a friend mine used to jump his 79 vx with a raven 150, he now has a pd 126r.

and then my buddy who has a 109 vx loaded up at like 2.6 (he's a big boy) has a tempo 250 reserve. my buddy vern has a velo 111 loaded at about 2.5 (also a big boy) has a pd 176r.

later

[karenmeal 0]

Wow, at 500 jumps you really seem to be on the ball... you want to overload your reserve, you are already a very experienced canopy pilot (since you seem confident that you could swoop an f-111 seven cell loaded over 1.7 after encountering a very stressful situation), and you don't want to listen to advice from people who have way more experience than you.

Hey, while you're at, why not try to land a birdman suit? I hear it can be done..

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[prost 0]

  Quote

What size reserves do people who fly sub 100 mains generally use?

I have two FX99s loaded at 2.22. I have a PD-176 in one rig and a Raven I-181 in the other.

[freeflyfree 0]

  Quote

Wow, at 500 jumps you really seem to be on the ball... you want to overload your reserve, you are already a very experienced canopy pilot (since you seem confident that you could swoop an f-111 seven cell loaded over 1.7 after encountering a very stressful situation), and you don't want to listen to advice from people who have way more experience than you.

Hey, while you're at, why not try to land a birdman suit? I hear it can be done..

hehehe I'm sure getting a lot of heat from this posting.

I know what common sense dictates, but this posting was made with all those people (that have tiny reserves on them) in mind...ok ok I don't want to overload my reserve anymore...thanks for the opinions, but keep'em coming.

Felipe

--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

[mjosparky 4]

  Quote

What size reserves do people who fly sub 100 mains generally use?

Lets just say, I see A LOT of small containers that look like they couldn't hold anything larger than a 120 reserve.

Scott,
This guys has got just over 500 jumps in 8 years. In you expert opinion do you think he is ready to jump a 7 cell reserve loaded at 1.7:1.
I see "A LOT" of things at the DZ, but that does not make them the smart thing to do. We are all adults so go with what you think is best for you. If you bust your ass, just think of how many "I told you so's" you will have coming. It is not a matter of "if" but "when". This is not directed at you personally, but everyone in general.
I have been doing this for a long time and I can still walk without a limp. There are "A LOT" of jumpers that inside of 5 years could not walk at all. jmo.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[AndyMan 7]

  Quote

but it's really hard to get info on how overloaded PDs an Smarts and dash-Ms and R-Maxs land..

?!?!?!?!?!???

I dunno about Smart, but its real easy to find out for yourself how a PD reserve lands. Call them up and ask for a demo. Then jump it hooked up on main risers.

When I wanted to know how a PDR143 flew at 1.6, that's what I did.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[diablopilot 2]

  Quote

They probably fear a blown up reserve more than they fear a two out with tiny main with modest reserve.

You're right on the two out scenario.

Over loading many reserves isn't likely to cause them to blow up any more than loading a main heavy (i.e. 2.0 and above) causes them to blow up.


Reserve canopies are tested to much heavier weights than they will ever be jumped at.

The big problem with loading your reserve as heavy as a highly loaded sport main it that it isn't one. Your low porosity 7 cell reserve flys NOTHING like your high performance 9 (or more) cell Zero Perosity main. If you have not flown it or a like canopy before at those loadings you're very likely to hurt yourself under one.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[aubsmell 0]

Hey, sorry I haven't responded sooner, I saw this post a few days ago, but I've been in computer hell.

As for over loading a Smart, I don't suggest overloading any canopy....if you say "I'm overloading it" than you have already made the mental decision that you are in over your head. It's never a good feeling to wish you had a little more fabric over your head when everything is going wrong.

Also, all these maximums are just that MAXIMUMS! Just because the Smart reserve is certified to take loads of 300lbs at 250 knots in all sizes and is certified to 10G's at 300lbs, doesn't mean we reccomend that you take that as a suggestion! We are more just saying, hey this reserve tough! and that we have done the testing to prove it, so if you get in a bad situation you have confidence that this mama is going to hold up to a beating.

I am glad however that you are interested in trying the reserve you want to have in your pack tray. It is a great idea, it's good to know how it's going to fly. I have them set up as mains so that you can do just that. You are a step ahead, please encourage your friends to do the same. (I would suggest doing a hop and pop sub terminal, they are built to open fast)

Send me an email a.easterlin@aerodyne-int.com and we'll get you squared away.

Sorry for being so brief, but I gotta run, email me with any more questions.

"Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"