Snagging Pop-Tops?

[riggerrob 643]

There is an urban myth among skydivers that Pop-Top reserves (i.e completely exposed pilot chute) are far more susceptible to accidental snagging on lines, door frames, etc.
However, in 20 years of rigging, no one has ever brought me a Pop-Reserve (Racer, Teardrop, Reflex, etc.) that has snagged.
And I have only heard of one case of a student accidentally deploying a Pop-Top reserve in the doorway, but that was more a case of "slam it long enough and hard enough and you can break any closing loop."
Please only post replies if you have WITNESSED the accidental deployment of a Pop-Top.
It would be especially informative to hear from people who were on the US National Canopy Formation Team when they wore Racers.

[Remster 30]

Geeze.. I posted this about 3 times now, surprised you didnt read it!

I didnt witness it... It happened to me!

Reflex, Gran Caravan, was about 3 or 4th Diver (so had about 3 or 4 people behind me too) in a 15 or 14 way (cant remember that).

I dint get low enough on exit and the floater handle (which was inside the door) lodged itself between the pop-top and the rig (the pop top was tight). With my weight and the weight of the 3-4 people behind me, the loop let go.

Uneventfull reseve ride from 14K (no parts of the canopy, me, or freebag hit the plane or other divers).

This happened sometime in 2001 in England.

Edit: oh.. and this was completely my fault... but being 6'2", I find Gran Caravan damm small when running out.

Remster

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

My first container was a racer. While visiting a DZ, I was doing a 6way from a Cessna 195. I was exiting last. As I Leaving the plane, I got stuck in the door. I thought I had Just snagged the yoke of my rig, so I just ducked down and and left the plane. While diving to the base I was rocking all over the place and thought my skill were lacking. Under canopy I noticed my reserve PC sticking out. When I landed I realized what had happened. When leaving the plane I had actually snagged the top of my pop top. It did not deploy the reserve, but it did stretch the quick loops to full extenstion. So I was left with my reserve PC sticking off my back with the spring fully extended and the pins still set. What was disturbing is that while in the 6way no one noticed it , at least they didn't let me in on it and no one said anything to me on the ground either. I do think that If they are packed correctly It will minimize the risk of a snag. But I see to many pop tops that are not packed well and sticking up off the container. There is an added risk with snag points on fully expossed pop tops.
Jeff

[Remster 30]

Quote

There is an added risk with snag points on fully expossed pop tops.

The way I see it, its a trade-off. The pin is much much more protected, but the PC isnt.

Remster

[GravityGirl 0]

Paul R. at Byron snagged a main line on the pop top of his reflex while doing CRW.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[Tink1717 2]

Just out of curiosity, what are you going to do with the data you collect? Or are you just out to bust a myth?

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[hookitt 1]

Paul R from Bryon, already mentioned above, had a line catch during CRW.

Rob W, pop top loosened up on his Racer and the PC material came out, the side. The Pilot chute tilted up and the spring attempted to bend out sideways. I recall his rig looked "normal" prior to exiting a King Air.

I don't remember the name of the next jumper, but it was the same thing that happened to Rob.
I recall very clearly, walking out to pack my rig one sunny afternoon, and finding a puzzled skydiver looking at his rig wondering why the pop top was sticking up quite a bit with the material all coming out the side. I brought his rig in to the "local" dz rigger and he took care of it.

I've seen several pop top equipped rigs with the spring tilted up, usually to one side, often with Material exposed.

So as far as actually snagging the PC on a Pop Top equipped rig causing the loop to be cut, Paul R is the only one I have direct Knowledge. What happened with Robs and the other persons container, I don't know but It was quite apparent in freefall so we stopped the dive flow.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[relyon 0]

A friend of mine (Bill M) snagged his center cell on a Racer pop top building a two stack.

Bob

[rigging65 0]

Sure, it happens...almost always due to pilot error (not getting low enough coming out the door, usually). Of course you have to ask yourself; If you were close enough to snag the pop-top on the door frame, what was going to happen to your rig anyway. Answer: You were going to rake your reserve pin assembly (under the flaps) across the bar as well. Enough pressure on it and the loop can break or the pin can bend. End result: No matter what type of rig you're jumping, get low in the door and be aware as you exit!!

With that said, there is a mod (at least for the Reflex) that installs a small diamond-shaped flap over the leading (top) edge of the pop-top to help "keep it smooth" and reduce the possibility of a snag. It's called the Flappette mod.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[ChileRelleno 0]

As mentioned by others I've seen too many pop-tops not seated properly just waiting to snag something. I always bring this to the jumpers attention and usually it is just shrugged off or I'm told "Its always like that.". I think three out of more than a dozen or so have actually paid heed and gotten it fixed immediately, if its a Reflex it takes minutes to remedy unless the reserve pack job was crap to begin with.
The potential for serious problems that are ignored by those who blow it off scare the bejeezus out of me.
I've no eye-witness snag stories but I hope I've helped prevent some possibles.

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[gulaz 1]

Quote

As mentioned by others I've seen too many pop-tops not seated properly just waiting to snag something.

If packed carefully enough, you can usually seat the PC low enough in the pack that it doesnt stick out very far, and can be quite hidden (same with partially exposed - javelin, etc). The loops do loosen a bit over time, due to stretching, or the pack moving a bit, and by the end of a pack cycle can be quite exposed. Any rigger can fix that in a couple of minutes in the field however.

[pilotdave 0]

Only lines I ever snagged with my reflex were after walking back to the packing area with the canopy over my shoulder. But I got a lot of dirty looks because of the pop top, and once even got kicked off the plane because some reserve pilot chute was sticking out. Sometimes no matter how tight the pop top is, there's still a gap on one side due to the reserve packjob. And riggers that don't do a good job aren't so anxious to open it back up and try again for free.

Dave

[riggerrob 643]

Quote

Just out of curiosity, what are you going to do with the data you collect? Or are you just out to bust a myth?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I posted this question to bust a myth.
It is another one of those cases where you hear a rumor so many hundred times but never see any damage that you start to disbelieve the rumor.
Maybe I am getting old and sceptical.

[ChileRelleno 0]

I also jump a Reflex, I've had lines snag lightly around the pop-top walking back from the LZ, just catching the lip not snagged "under", I've never had PC material sticking out and always are able to get a solid seating of the pop-top. A great thing about the Reflex is the ability of the jumper to snug/seat the pop-top in the field themselves
Any rigger that would balk at fixing so sloppy packjob as to cause serious concerns does not need to be rigging IMHO.
I've been lucky I guess with riggers cause I always had great packjobs on my reserve. Only four riggers have packed it and my first question was how familiar with the Reflex were they, and I carry the reserve manual in case I need a repack from someone who's not while on the road or at a boogie.

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[Remster 30]

Quote

I posted this question to bust a myth.

I wouldnt call this a myth. An unlikely event perhaps, but not a myth.

Remster

[ChileRelleno 0]

Let me add here that any jumper attempting to snug/seat their pop-top in the field should been instructed by their rigger how to do this properly so as to avoid excessive pull force for reserve deployment.

If your gonna do it, do it right or find a rigger.

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[riggerrob 643]

Just a reminder that - in Canada - only a rigger may legally adjust a closing loop.
Untrained adjusters are liable to fray loops or bend ripcord pins.

[Spy38W 0]

Quote

Just a reminder that - in Canada - only a rigger may legally adjust a closing loop.
Untrained adjusters are liable to fray loops or bend ripcord pins.

Also the reason I note the pull force on the reserve packing card before the rig leaves.

--
Hook high, flare on time

[crwmike 0]

Quote

A friend of mine (Bill M) snagged his center cell on a Racer pop top building a two stack.

Bob

I jumped a racer for several years (all CRW). Always had a good, neat reserve pack and never had a problem. Then, fuking NippleBoy snagged his end cell on my pop two on two successive jumps. Pop Top was nice and snug and not inviting attack :( I was able, with considerable difficulty and much swearing, able to clear it but the potential concerned me greatly.

I picked up an OLD Infinity and am still using it. Gave the racer away.


Michael

[Chrisky 0]

Just got directed to a french site, www.para-mag.com, where they have a video of what seems to be a Pop-Top snagged to a Porters' doorframe.
Go to "Online->Videos" for both the teams cameramans' view and inside (plane) video.
There's also an article (french) along with it.

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[lippy 918]

A couple of years ago when Canadian Nationals were at Eden North, I was doing my first jumps out of anything bigger than a C-206 from the Caravan they'd brought in. I jump a Reflex with the flaplette mod, but I was unpacked and got invited on my first hoop dive, so borrowed my buddy's rig, also a Reflex, no flaplettes. Got high in the door and hooked the pop-top on the floater bar, ripped the PC halfway out. I'll never forget the looks on the faces of the guys holding the hoop when I started to come in on it.

I got nuthin

[linestretch 0]

very nice addition. Thanx, that's sweet vid.

YIKES!!!!

my pics & stuff!

[airgord 1]

The 2000 Nationals at Perris there was a 4 way team from TX I think that had a member actually peel the pin flap and ripcord pin on his reserve by doing a rig jam in the door, as they backed out side the top of the door (bottom?) pushed the pin out and the camera guy got a great shot of his teammates pilot chute then his teammate roar right past him, nobody hurt but I think they called it a meet after that. Should be on the Omniskore video for that year and maybe on that teams best of. I think the rig was a Javelin and it was supposed to be a headjam type exit.
What up Double J !