airdvr 210 #1 April 20, 2004 This should be interesting. Back in the sport after a long layoff. I'm jumping old gear....really old gear Racer DOM 3/84 BOC Tri 190 used DOM? 26' LoPo Reserve DOM 2/79 I am not a device dependent jumper but I'm interested in some input on what particular problems I might encounter. I'm really concerned about a round reserve and a PC in tow because there's no freebag. All comments are welcome but go easy on the old man here.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,446 #2 April 20, 2004 That's not that different from the gear I used when I got back into skydiving 3 years ago; I used that gear for about 1 1/2 years until I was ready to get something else. You won't want to freefly with it, and it won't swoop worth a flip . People will look weird at you about having a round reserve. If you're not comfortable landing one, then don't jump it. Really. Its job is to get you to a safe spot, not the perfect one. On the other hand, you won't lose your freebag or pilot chute if you do use your reserve. A PC in tow is not good news no matter what. But a freebag is no guarantee of the reserve coming off clean -- the bridle still has to catch enough air. And a reserve can deploy past a PC in tow; I've had it happen a couple of times (I used to experiment with my equipment when I was younger ). If you're comfortable steering and landing those canopies, and the dropzone has enough landing area that a safe spot is OK to land in, then I'd say jump it until you settle on what rig you want to end up with, because it's perfectly capable of keeping you safe. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #3 April 20, 2004 Thanks Wendy...I've actually ridden the reserve 3 times and I'm as comfortable as I can be with it all things considered. Actually dumped it twice at terminal (that's why I've converted to BOC). It has a 4-line release that makes it a really hot performerPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #4 April 20, 2004 QuoteI'm as comfortable as I can be with it all things considered What does that actually mean?? I could put it on my back and say the same thing. Hee hee.... I'd highly consider getting it converted over to a Square reserve. I'll be nice and not suggest replacing the rig, however, I would suggest sending it back to the factory for some upgrades. Nightjumper can give you the skinny on that. I'd recommend sending him a PM in case he misses this thread.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,446 #5 April 20, 2004 Having 3 round jumps is not necessarily the same as being comfortable with it; are those your only round jumps? If so, then I'd put a square reserve higher on the priority list, unless you really can adjust your thinking to a round world when you're stressed. The best thing about its being a 26' lopo is that if you do piece together newer gear, you can fit something reasonable into it. My old rig had a 20' round, which would be very tight on a 150' square (not to mention the whole unfamiliar thing), so a square wasn't really a legitimate option. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #6 April 21, 2004 The harness and reserve are getting to the age where some riggers won't pack them. My personnal limit is usually 20 years. Some riggers use 15, some 25 and some will pack any age based on condition. If the lopo doesn't have a full stoage diaper I wouldn't pack it anyway. My personnal decision. The biggest thing is that there is much safer and more reliable gear now. For $1000 you can get a good early to mid 1990's harness and reserve. For $1500 you can get a very good, almost state of the art used harness and container. These newer rigs would most likely be AAD ready if you wanted one. My second rig is a Triathlon 190 so nothing wrong with that at all. Is it as airworthy as is was? Sure, if you took care of it. Is a lot better gear available? Sure. Might as well take advantage of the advanes in the sport.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #7 April 21, 2004 This rig sets off several warning bells. First, replace all the pile Velcro on the Racer. Secondly, see if the 3-Rings were manufactured in 1982 or '83. There was a soft batch of rings back then, that really should be cut off and replaced by screwing in RW6 rings. Who built that 26' LoPo in 1979? That was around the start of the dreaded acid-mesh era. If it was sewn by anyone EXCEPT Strong Enterprises or Free Flight Enterprises, it is suspect. Also if it was sewn by GQ Security, it can no longer be legally repacked (factory imposed 15 year life). Since Racers of that vintage had really short reserve risers - barely long enough to hide the connector links inside the container, installing a square reserve is probably not an option. Also, some Southern California riggers refused to pack squares into that vintage of Racer reserve container. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #8 April 21, 2004 Sorry for the one liner but damn, that was informative.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #9 April 21, 2004 "I'm interested in some input on what particular problems I might encounter." Riggerrob mentioned the acid mesh issue, which is definitely worthwhile checking out, but no rigger worth his salt would repack for you without testing. I would also watch the winds I jumped in with a round reserve, and be super careful with the spotting. Round reserves won't give you much penetration on windy days, so brace for all the hassles of landing a not so steerable round reserve off site. I'd refresh my memories of those PLFs.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatbomb 0 #10 April 21, 2004 QuoteAlso if it was sewn by GQ Security, it can no longer be legally repacked (factory imposed 15 year life). Following you saying this in an earlier thread, I phoned up GQ, as I was concerned that there are several X210Rs and X175Rs still in circulation at my DZ (13-18 years old). The response I got was that the 15 year life is a liability issue, much as most American manufacturers life their reserves at 120 days, and then it's up to the rigger...so GQ have said, after 15 years, they will no longer be liable...They then suggested that if the canopy was in good condition, it could still be packed, but that I may want to go to Paragear.com, who sell more up to date designs! So it seems like, as usual, the whole thing is a fudge.--- Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii! Piccies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #11 April 21, 2004 This 15 year life imposed by GQ Defence is just another strike against old round reserves. No one strike is enough to ground a canopy, but they add up. For example, a GQ Security SAC reserve has at least five strikes against it. 1) GQ Security closed its California factory 20 years ago, ergo no more third line repairs 2) GQ Defence says not to pack any of their products more than 15 years old 3) the whole acid mesh hassle 4) my boss banned round reserves at Pitt Meadows a year and a half ago. 5) Only three out of 8 candidates at a recent CSPA Riggers course asked to be tested on packing round parachutes, ergo the supply of riggers who know how to pack round reserves is rapidly dwindling. No single point is enough to ground a Security 26 LoPo, but at some point we have to say "enough is enough" and stop repacking antiques. Another angle is to say "if he has not worn out a round reserve in 25-odd years, then he is in the wrong business." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #12 April 21, 2004 Thanks to everyone for the input. Hookitt...what I meant was I know there's newer equipment available. I don't think newer=safer from a design standpoint. I guess I was looking for a particular design flaw with the older Racers. Wendy...I can tell by your D# that you go further back than I do...but where I learned we had to take a T-10 to terminal velocity before we could gradutate to a Para-Commander I have more round jumps than I care to remember. Councilman...the harness/container has been inspected...all the velcro has been replaced, and it was converted from a pull-out to a BOC. I'm assuming since the DOM on the harness is 3/84 that the three rings are not an issue, or that the rigger who inspected it would have said something. She did replace the orginal risers. Riggerrob...the 26' is a Strong and is in excellent condition for as old as it is. Now...a couple of questions about the PC in tow issue. 2 of my reserve rides were because of a lost pud. On the first I stayed flat and stable, the reserve PC sat in my burble until I turned to look...line stretch was at 600'. Since then, I've known to sit up if that situation occurs to clear the airflow over my back. If I'm faced with a PC in tow it would seem that sitting up wouldn't be a good thing to do. Also, should I cut away first? I'm thinking that the main container will open when the reserve is deployed.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #13 April 24, 2004 my first rig was a 83' racer... got some wierd looks from people when they saw all the exposed risers that thing has....... never freeflied with it but it worked great for me.... was able to fit a pd210 to a sbre 150 in it no problems........... but it was later found to have the 83' rings on it and was deemed bymyself to expensive to replace them than the rig was worth..... as for findingout what rings you have...look at the bottom of the ring where they attach to the harness... there will be some numbers there.... post em and some one here cantell ya if it is part of the soft ring batch...... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markbaur 0 #14 April 24, 2004 Quotethe 26' is a Strong... It's a 1979 Strong 26' lopo with a 4-line release? I didn't know they came in that configuration. That time period is also about when Strong tried an anti-snag coating on the lines, which under heat and pressure glued the lines together. Washing the lines was a simple fix. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #15 April 24, 2004 That time period is also about when Strong tried an anti-snag coating on the lines, which under heat and pressure glued the lines together. That would suck now wouldn't it. I tried a minor comeback in 1995 and had the rig inspected then...and again last year. I'm fairly sure that a rigger would know about that potential problem and alert me to it. I'm wondering if the 4-line is a mod from the original configuration...because its definitley a Strong and it was made in 2/79.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpervint 0 #16 April 24, 2004 I came back to the sport a few years ago with my circa 1981 Racer. I bought a square reserve and converted from a GQ Security round that had passed the acid test. I wasn't comfortable and figured a square reserve would help when the spot wasn't right on. The exposed risers that Wingnut refers to are what freaked out people at the dz. Last year, my rigger found a good deal on a Talon someone had sitting in a closet, so I traded "up" to to a container a decade newer. I sometimes think that part of the deal was my rigger not liking to pack Racers, but I know the exposed risers really bothered him. He even mentioned it last night in a refresher course at the dz. I loved my Racer, and would consider one again when or if I need new gear. I've got enough round jumps to know that I don't really want to jump another if I don't have to, especially now that I weigh another 30 pounds more than when I had a round. Vint. . . . . "Make it hard again." Doc Ed “A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free” Nikos Kazantzakis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
