Unstable 9 #26 April 29, 2004 I had the same first impessions of the Spectre when I first demoed it. I probably have about 30 jumps on a Spectre 150, and there are sometimes I wish I had bought a Spectre150 instead of a Sabre2. I let my gear dealer talk me into it.....=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #27 April 29, 2004 Quote .....but the flare response still thoroughly impressed me over the Saber2 170..... I'm suprised by that. I have 400-odd jumps on a couple of Spectres and 200-odd on a Sabre2 and the flare in Sabre2 blew me away after all those Spectre jumps. Not that the Spectre flare sucks (it's quite good really) just that the Sabre2 seemed way more powerful. Be careful dude, I was lucky to walk away from a low turn on a Spectre at 1.3. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DancingFlame 0 #28 April 29, 2004 Quote Spectre 150 loaded at 1.4:1 Whoa! You've loaded it a bit high for your jump number! I'm not a canopy nazi. But you are far beyond the recommendations. Don't want to see a new post in the Incidents forum (knock on the wood). As for Spectres, I've jumped 150 for ~30-40 jumps (w/l ~1.2). Soft on-heading openings, flat glide (really better than Sabre's), crisp turns with a lot of altitude loss. Riser pressure is high, I was unable to do more than 360 on the front riser. Canopy is easy to land, all my landing were stand-ups. Recovery arc is short, last turn should be done lower than with Sabre to get a good swoop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanofOZ 0 #29 April 29, 2004 Glad to hear you like the Spectre, I love mine! I think they are truly amazing canopys. They open beautifully, fly well, and land great. I have yet to biff a landing on my spectre. As for some of the weak flair comments, I just dont see it. I think the flare is very impressive. I rarely use more than 1/2 - 2/3 toggle input to land nice and soft. In deep brakes it wont stall (for me), and can give very responsive toggle turns and riser turns if you are strong enough to pull them. The front riser pressure is a little high. It has been very easy to pack and forgiving of "newbie" packing errors. I have also noticed when jumping with people on 9 cells that I am down right in the middle of the pack. Some out glide it, others dont. I do not feel it is a ground hungry canopy. The landings are great and feel anyone should be able to land it with minimal effort. All round a great canopy, I am happy I bought it. I fly a 210 loaded about 1.15Oz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chopchop 0 #30 April 29, 2004 Quote Hey, this is Lodi, we don't get long spots over here!! Okay, maybe once in awhile we do, but that's what the rear risers are for right? . Hey! I broke my leg on a long spot in Lodi.. Jef.. The Spectre is a great canopy but as others have suggested the loading is too high for your experience.. Why don't you find a good used 170 and put a couple of hundred jumps on that before going to a 150? You'll learn a ton and hopefully won't get broken. chopchop gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking.. Lotsa Pictures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StearmanR985 0 #31 April 29, 2004 Quote Hey! I broke my leg on a long spot in Lodi.. Jef.. Wow, I am really sorry to here that happened. I have only had one long spot so far, about 2 miles (super long jump run), I pulled at 7K to make it back which ended up being more than adequate. Keep on having fun!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #32 April 29, 2004 Jeff I'm glad I'm not the only one suggesting you stay with a larger canopy for your "experience" level. As I told you before. I dont want to visit you in the hospital or worst. The hot summer of long spots has only just begun. Heed the words of wisdom Grasshopper. Maybe I should start a poll about when one of your students stops listening to thier Instructor?www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chopchop 0 #33 April 29, 2004 Jeff, I can't make you do anything but if you take the combined experience of the people telling you that you are not ready for that wingloading, Ed and Bonnie included, you might want to listen. If you want to jump a canopy loaded at 1.4, do a couple of hundred hop'n'pops at one loaded at 1.2 and work on really learning a canopy. Then move on. I know it sounds like forever but it's really not. And the experience and currency can save your life. So you don't think I am a canopy nazi, here is my experience. I currently have 250 jumps on a Stilletto 150 loaded at 1.8. This is after a number of canopies starting at a Safire 209 for 100 jumps, then upsizing to a Triathlon 220 for 100 jumps after hurting myself, then a Spectre 190 at 1.4 at about 250 jumps. It was a little early but I was conservative on it.. I learned a shitload on it and jumped it for 270 jumps before going to a Sabre II 170 at 1.6 for 150 jumps and then the Stiletto 150 at 1.8. Every canopy choice I made was with the approval of mentors I trusted.. Bonnie and Matthias in particular. If either of them or any other really experienced jumper would have said I should slow down, I would have. At over 900 jumps, I took about a 3 month break over the winter. I was scared shitless to land my Stiletto the first weekend back. Why? Because the more you jump and the more you are in the sport, the more you understand how it can hurt you. I've heard people screaming in pain, watched blood spurting from arteries from compound femur fractures and heard Paul's thump and watched his canopy settle over the fence. All of these injuries were on canopies that the person could normally land safely. Something happened on each of these jumps that put these people in peril and they didn't have the correct wing above them combined with their skill set to save them from severe injury or death. High performance canopy landings are fun but they are extremely dangerous and the only way to become even close to ready to do this is to have a lot of landings. There is no other way to learn the sight picture, the recovery arc and the other handling characteristics of a parachute than to fly it. 100 landings is not enough to be able to save yourself from a mistake at a 1.4 wing loading in my opinion and probably the opinion of most experienced jumpers. Be smart, Jeff. See ya soon. chopchop gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking.. Lotsa Pictures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #34 April 30, 2004 Quote Quote Spectre 150 loaded at 1.4:1 Whoa! You've loaded it a bit high for your jump number! I'm not a canopy nazi. But you are far beyond the recommendations. Don't want to see a new post in the Incidents forum (knock on the wood). As for Spectres, I've jumped 150 for ~30-40 jumps (w/l ~1.2). Soft on-heading openings, flat glide (really better than Sabre's), crisp turns with a lot of altitude loss. Riser pressure is high, I was unable to do more than 360 on the front riser. Canopy is easy to land, all my landing were stand-ups. Recovery arc is short, last turn should be done lower than with Sabre to get a good swoop. I think you're also above recommendations for your jump #s. I think Brian Germain recommends 1:1 then up by .1 every hundred jumps (assuming you know what you're doing!). I think that with your low jump #s and small amt of time in the sport, giving others recommendations on what canopy they should be flying is a bit beyond your level of expertise (and mine). There will be plenty of more qualified people to make those assumptions based on what they've seen and flown. jmo of course (I only have 200 jumps, so take it fwiw... but you won't see me yelling at someone for their w/l because I haven't even flown at 1.4). I especially wouldn't be advising people on swooping. Telling people their last turn should be done lower than with other canopies is dangerous. They can probably initiate at the same level as with, say, a sabre, get it in a good dive, and just counter the turn more with the other riser so as not to get to final as fast. These are things you will learn in a good canopy course, which is a better thing to tell people rather than telling them to go lower. Furthermore, I don't know why you need to do more than a 360 front riser turn.... unnecessary, especially for your experience level. Also "A lot" of altitude loss is relative. So, you are expressing that you feel this canopy has a lot of altitude loss in toggle turns... but compared to what? That is a pretty irrelevant piece of info with no comparison. Compared to what i've flown, I tend to disagree with your statement. Not trying to slam you, but be careful of the advice you give to those newer in the sport. And, be careful out there yourself. I hope you're not doing 360s to final yet. I am not a canopy nazi, either, fyi. Just trying to get you to learn more and fly more before giving others the type of advice you are handing out. Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #35 April 30, 2004 Quote In deep brakes it wont stall (for me), It is my understanding that you should be able to stall your canopy in brakes. If you cannot do that, you will not be able to fully shut down on a no-wind day. On a day with wind, you will stop fine because the wind will counter your speed. So, if you have a 5mph headwind, you will come to rest when your canopy if flying at 5mph. On a no-wind day, you need to be able to stop that canopy's flight... else you will be running out your landing. I am sure someone will verify this. You might want to get your brakes shortened a bit if you truly cannot stall your canopy when all the way in brakes (there will be a happy medium somewhere that you can stall your canopy in brakes, yet you do not have tail deflection in a riser turn.) Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanofOZ 0 #36 April 30, 2004 From what I am told by instructors, being able to stall a canopy is not that big of a deal. Spectres are known for that..... This is taken from the PD website on the Spectres flight characteristics.... Depending on how much you weigh, you may not be able to stall a Spectre even if you hold the toggles all the way down. Quite a few skydivers, even very knowledgeable and experienced ones, believe that you must be able to stall a canopy with the toggles all the way down in order to land it correctly. This belief does not apply to many canopies, including the Spectre. When a canopy actually stalls, its lift decreases dramatically and its rate of descent rapidly increases. A stalled canopy is not really “flying.” If you want a soft landing, you want your canopy to keep creating lift and maintaining a low rate of descent until your feet are on the ground. If a canopy stalls while landing, it may set you rather abruptly on the ground. If you adjust your steering toggles so that your canopy is easier to stall, it may actually become more difficult to land softly. That about sums it up...Oz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #37 April 30, 2004 The Spectre is a FINE canopy. My first bought canopy was a Spectre. I loved it and never had a single problem with it. I bought it new when I had 80 jumps and was wingloading it at 1:1. I sold it with about 550 jumps. I packed it about 470 times and out of those 470 times, I had one less that perfect opening (where I got slammed). I couldn't believe it would actually slam me but it did and it was my own fault because I rushed the pack job giving it a shitty s-fold and thinking, this thing will open great no mater what I do to it. So I would say the opening characteristics of it are excellent. It will open nice and soft every time. Once you are under the canopy, it flies nicely, can be docile or aggressive if you want. It is harder to give it front and rear riser input (in my opinion) mainly due to the more square shape of the 7 cell vs. the 9 cell elliptical. I also noticed that I didn't get as much forward drive in winds as my 9 cell buddies did. I would be holding or coming straight down in higher winds while my friends would be puttin right along under their 9 cells. Their glide ratio is a bit steeper than a 9 cell, I never had a problem with the landings. Once I found the stall point on my canopy which only took a jump or two, it landed me beautifully and safely every time. It was an easy canopy to tip-toe out. I have the Stiletto now and am wingloading it just a little more with a 135. Compared to the Spectre, the Stiletto flies much more aggressively, the openings are usually nice but not as consistent. It carves through the air with much more sharpness and is much easier to plane out on landing. I would recommend the Spectre to a novice/intermediate canopy pilot at the right wingloading. It was a great canopy in my experience and landed me safely every time. Good luck, enjoy your canopy and don't rush into a higher wingloading than you need to before you are ready. There will be plenty of time to downsize safely Blue skies and soft landings.Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StearmanR985 0 #38 April 30, 2004 Great response, your observations are much appreciated. I am going to work with stall points, at altitude of course, this morning. Also, there is barely a light breeze so far this morning so it will be interesting to see how the landings go today. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmbale 0 #39 May 5, 2004 I jump a 190 Spectre at a very conservative wingloading. .76 to 1 This was my initial ZP canopy. I knew that I preferred seven cell F111 canopies over 9 cells. It took me a long time to have consistent stand-up landings but now I do 98% of the time. I can land it in no winds, low winds, and high winds. I have even safely downwinded it. I now love my Spectre and will probably get another Spectre when downsize. They are ground hungry compared to nine cells (I have jumped a Hornet to compare). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StearmanR985 0 #40 May 5, 2004 Glad to hear you really like your Spectre. I definitely like the demo. After putting a few more jumps on it I would still say it is a bit ground hungry (not scary ground hungry though) but then again I do not have much to compare to. It responds very well to any kind of input, at least for me. I still think the flare is truly great especially if you induce a bit of extra speed. This canopy resonds to both toggle and riser input fairly quickly yet with a comfortable amount of control. I made a piss poor decision last Sunday and got myself into a potentially nasty situation, I was quite glad to be under the demo at the time. I had to make some last second heading changes once I realized I screwed up and needed to land in a fairly tight alternative area. The canopy responded very well and I was able to steer it right where I wanted and land safely. Oh yeah, it is just plain fun too!!! Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
