riggerrob 643
Ron 10
QuoteIgnoring?
Last thing I heard was that Vigil was replacing all of the defective first batch as fast as they could manufacture (upgraded) replacements
They have ignored the in air fire in DeLand....
It happend in Feb and this SB by them does not mention it at all.
QuoteBrussels, 5 April 2004
VIGIL STATUS
Dear customer,
To start, we would like to provide you with a brief history of the Vigil AAD.
Our production company, B&B Controls S.A., has been active for more than 30 years in developing and commercialising small electromechanical industrial automation systems.
After more than two years of research and study, we patented a new AAD that determines activation altitude in a sophisticated and accurate manner by calculating remaining freefall time. (European patent: EP 1084 950 B1-Smolders Jo and US patent: US 6.378.808 B1-Smolders Jo.)
This was the beginning of the Vigil concept. In all, it took us more than five years of designing and testing before we felt confident that the Vigil was ready for the skydiving market.
Several experienced skydivers worked with our engineering team to help us develop a very reliable and user-friendly AAD. Extensive testing was done in test chambers and on more than a 1000 practical jumps before the Vigil was given to exclusive, experienced jumpers to further test.
During this testing period (June 2003) we had our first incident on a sponsored Beta unit that was being tested by the French FS 4-way team. The misfire of this Vigil was due to the freefall/time calculation method being too sensitive – a simple problem to fix. During this time, the Vigil was not yet for sale – neither in France nor in any other country. A “Security Flash” was issued by the French Federation regarding this incident on 27 June 2003. But, it was removed on 3 August after a delegation from the French Federation analysed our documented test records and visited our production facilities.
At that time, we decided not to release the Vigil to the public until 3000 live jumps had been recorded without issue. We reached the 3000 jump mark in the beginning of September 2003. Therefore, the first Vigils were sold at the end of September.
Our policy in creating the Vigil was (and still is) that safety and reliability are the first and most important rules to abide by, especially:
“A Vigil must fire only when necessary.”
Over two years of testing there were more than 6000 documented, live test jumps made on Vigils. To date, there are currently over 10,000 total jumps on Vigils world-wide.
From September to December, we had no reported incidents.
In December 03, a Vigil fire occurred in Zephyrhills, Florida, USA, due to a jumper activating his main parachute at 1400 ft. His main was open at 1100 ft. After analyzing the Vigil’s data from that jump, we were able to see that the Vigil worked correctly in activating the cutter at 1100 ft. In PRO mode, the Vigil is set to fire at 800 ft but it can activate up to 300 ft higher during a low pull. This fact is due to the changing barometric pressure around the rig during an opening sequence. It is advised to activate a main parachute by 1800 ft, especially with an AAD in your rig.
During repack of this jumper’s reserve, the newly replaced Vigil cutter was activated on the ground. Upon analysis, it was observed that one of the two battery wires was pinched between the Vigil’s metallic housing cases. We believe that this created a short circuit and caused the cutter to fire. The battery wires on the first one hundred production units were long enough to need to be stowed away carefully. Before this incident occurred, the battery wires had already been shortened so that they no longer need special attention.
Another issue that came to light in December, 2003 is that a very small batch of the early units may have a shorter battery life than expected. This problem was due to using too high of a soldering temperature on the shielding cover. This only affects the power saver filter (which extends the life of the battery) only and has no effect on the functionality of the Vigil to cut the reserve loop when necessary. The only problem that may arise is that the message (BAT LOW) would come on before the 4-year mark, meaning the battery has to be replaced earlier than expected (this is under warranty).
These were the only problems recorded in 2003 on all the Vigils in use.
In March 2004, we had three ground misfires in the USA and in Gap, France. After analysing the French misfires (and by visiting the site) we noted very high electrostatic discharges. Both the French and US misfires in March happened during the repack of the main on the ground.
After this experience, we tested with a 17 KV probe and found that this very high voltage could in some cases trigger the cutter. Previously, we tested our units with static electricity up to 5KV without any incident.
During all previous testing in Maubeuge (Fr), Gap (Fr) and in Schaffen (B), we did not experience such electrostatic conditions.
To activate the cutter, there must be at least a 15 KV electrostatic discharge. This can only happen on ground under very specific circumstances (high electrostatic environment: dry weather + static floor).
We have also found in a few cases that an electrostatic discharge can affect the contrast of the LCD display, causing it to fade. This problem is only with the display’s contrast and not with the Vigil’s functionality. To alleviate the possibility of future ground misfires or fading displays, we decided to modify the Vigil’s main printed circuit board (P.C.B.) to neutralise the effects of electrostatic discharges. This will avoid future ground activations, even with very high levels of static electricity (up to 20KV).
Out of respect to our customers, we have decided to replace ALL Vigils currently in the field with a completely new unit. These units will have the new P.C.B. already installed.
In this letter, we would also like to apologize for the lack of marketing communication, which is mainly due to recent internal problems and a restructuring of our sales administration.
Due to these internal problems we were obliged to stop all marketing and sales actions done by “Aviacom”, a company owned by Karel Goorts. Our own sales company, Advanced Aerospace Designs S.A. (AAD), has reorganised the marketing and sales departments with a new team.
First and foremost, our mission is to produce an extremely reliable automatic activation device that satisfies the skydiver’s needs.
We are convinced that we have now reached this goal but we will, of course, continue to strive towards even greater advancements in AAD technology.
Over the next month or two our main focus will be on customer service - getting our customers a Vigil with the new P.C.B. Once that task is complete, we will greatly increase our attention to marketing and sales.
Once again, please accept our apologies for any lack of information concerning Vigil that you may have experienced. Questions on any part of this letter are welcome and will be answered as soon as possible.
We thank you again for your trust, interest and support.
Blue Skies,
Jo Smolders
Managing Director
Advanced Aerospace Designs
No mention of the in air fire in DeLand..And they blame the ground fire to a rigging error...But then they had many more ground fires and now they say that there is a static issue.
About the air fire..They have told some people about it, but it was not included in the SB released by them.
QuoteI had this incident confirmed to me in an e-mail from Kim. I too am waiting to get the skinny on that incident. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1025075#1025075
So, where is the answer to the in air fire in DeLand?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
QuoteOut of all the major manufactors only 2 Have a two pin system and one of those I think also offers a 1 pin system. My guess... 3-7% of the rigs in the air today are 2 pin designs. Can't blame them for going after such a small market.
If you're thinking about Racers and teardrops and only considering the sport market, then yes.
I believe Strong Tandem rigs are 2 pin designs, and a large number of DZ's persist in using them.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
Ron 10
QuoteIf you're thinking about Racers and teardrops and only considering the sport market, then yes.
I believe Strong Tandem rigs are 2 pin designs, and a large number of DZ's persist in using them.
Yes, but there are many less Strong Tandem rigs Racers, and other two pin designs than single pin containers.
So I can understand why they didn't bother with a two pin design...I don't see the added problems with a two pin design, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Diver23 0
My buddy and I both have one and like it a lot. I will continue to jump it as long as the manufacturer considers it safe. I don’t take all the ‘facts’ of the people who post in this forum to serious. If you want to know anything specific, just let me know.
Cheers
Cheers
indiana 0
Quote I don’t take all the ‘facts’ of the people who post in this forum to serious. If you want to know anything specific, just let me know.
??? These facts are what they are FACTS! Or sofar 9 misfires. You don’t take this fact to serious? Or the fact that the manufacturer wrote in SB 1 the Vigil was safe as a misfire can only occur on the ground? ( and three weeks later there is a misfire at 3500 ft in Australia? By the way this fact seems to be on video).
Yes I would like to know anything specific I don’t know yet.
Indiana
??? These facts are what they are FACTS! Or sofar 9 misfires. You don’t take this fact to serious? Or the fact that the manufacturer wrote in SB 1 the Vigil was safe as a misfire can only occur on the ground? ( and three weeks later there is a misfire at 3500 ft in Australia? By the way this fact seems to be on video).
Yes I would like to know anything specific I don’t know yet.
Indiana
Shark 0
I've got over 50 jumps on mine within the last month without any problems.
Quote( and three weeks later there is a misfire at 3500 ft in Australia? By the way this fact seems to be on video)
On a static line jump and is atributed to static electrical discharge, just like in the ground firings.
I'm not defending Vigil, but if you're gonna be the reporter of the "facts", report 'em all.
To date there only seems to be one unexplained misfire on a production unit.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
Ron 10
QuoteTo date there only seems to be one unexplained misfire on a production unit.
Thats not enough?
Besides the current theory is that it is static between the bag and the container during deployment that might have caused it.
But who knows...They are not talking, and that is my biggest issue.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
QuoteThats not enough?
By it's self, no. I'm not participating in a witch hunt.
I'm not defending them either.
I currently am not personaly suportive of the Vigil as product, based on it's lack of history.
Who's to say AirTec and the Cypres 1 or 2 have not had missfires? However they do have a hell of a lot of sucessfull jumps on their products. Which is why I'll keep jumping one (Mostly in Tandem rigs). I however, in no way think it's an infalable device.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
According to this month's "Skydiving Magazine," The Vigils manufactured prior to March 26th 2004 have been recalled.
May 2004, Page 18
May 2004, Page 18
tinfoil 0
Air Tech has been very open with the problems that the Vigil has had. But I seem to recall that one of the units that fired was sent for "3rd party testing" I just forget which incident it was from.
“- - Sumo is the greatest of sports. It has power, grace, speed and cluture. And most importantly, two fat bastards smacking the shit out of each other. ”
“- - Sumo is the greatest of sports. It has power, grace, speed and cluture. And most importantly, two fat bastards smacking the shit out of each other. ”
Hello,
Thank you very much for the feedback, so I can conclude that it's better to wait for a few years and then see if Vigil solved there "child illnesses" and see where Vigil is on the market and for now go with a Cypress.
I must say that going trough the manual of Vigil that it sounds like a very nice device with a lot of extra and "handy" features in it, this all for a price which is lower then the Cypress. Since we all would like to save some money and spend it on jumps instead I was thinking of buying a Vigil, however since an AAD is a live saver, it's better to spend some extra bucks for it and make sure you can jump for another time.
It's correct that Vigil should get a fair chance, how many problems did Cypress had 13 years a go? And how long is Vigil on the market, I am sure that in the next couple of years they will solve the problems they have.
Once again, thanks for the information. If someone has any additional information and is willing to share it with me, please do not hesitate to do so.
Thanks,
Marc
Thank you very much for the feedback, so I can conclude that it's better to wait for a few years and then see if Vigil solved there "child illnesses" and see where Vigil is on the market and for now go with a Cypress.
I must say that going trough the manual of Vigil that it sounds like a very nice device with a lot of extra and "handy" features in it, this all for a price which is lower then the Cypress. Since we all would like to save some money and spend it on jumps instead I was thinking of buying a Vigil, however since an AAD is a live saver, it's better to spend some extra bucks for it and make sure you can jump for another time.
It's correct that Vigil should get a fair chance, how many problems did Cypress had 13 years a go? And how long is Vigil on the market, I am sure that in the next couple of years they will solve the problems they have.
Once again, thanks for the information. If someone has any additional information and is willing to share it with me, please do not hesitate to do so.
Thanks,
Marc
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Ignoring?
Last thing I heard was they were replacing the defective first batch as quick as they can manufacture updated Vigils.