sunnydee123 0 #1 May 11, 2004 I dropped my rig off to get a repack and the rigger asked me if I still wanted my RSL hooked up. He told me to think about it a few days but honestly, I'm not sure what to do. I'm sure it is all a matter of personal choices but what are your thoughts. I've got over 500 jumps and no cutaways. Keep the RSL or can it? Dreams become reality, one choice at a time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #2 May 11, 2004 oh christ... anyone ever get the feeling like they're at the top of a long drop on a rolercoaster.... the carriage is just teatering on the edge and its about to tip over the top... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 May 11, 2004 Oh buddy, that's a can of worms. Its been debated heavily in the past, if you do a search you'll find both sides of the arguement so you can make an informed decision.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #4 May 11, 2004 I don't have an RSL on either one of my skydiving rigs and as for my new BASE rig? Well ... enough said ... But that's just me ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunnydee123 0 #5 May 11, 2004 AAAHHHHH.................sorry I asked. I'll do a search . Was being lazy and just asking instead of looking first. Sure didn't want to pee in anyones Cheerios Dreams become reality, one choice at a time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #6 May 11, 2004 lets add a twist to your question which will make it harder to search for so people will answer here how does having a camera on your helmet effect RSL considerations? i have RSL now, but soon i'll be jumping with my camera and somehow i think it would be a good idea to take the RSL off... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #7 May 11, 2004 I can tell you why I took mine off. I fly camera, and helmet entaglements are a real possibility. Why would you consider taking it off? Unless you're flying video or doing a lot of CRW, I simply can't think of many good reasons to ditch it. To me, it seems like a no-brainer. Unless you've got giant snag-hazard strapped to your helmet like I do, Keep it. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #8 May 11, 2004 QuoteI simply can't think of many good reasons to ditch it. How about trying to get stable before deploying one's reserve. Case in point, I have a spinning mal and am violently spinning on my back, I cut away and because of that damn RSL I am not stable and there is the potential for line twists on my reserve (or worse just look at what happens when someone deploys head low or deploys on their back). RSLs are good for students, low timers and people with little confidence. But they are not for everyone. I'd prefer to rely on myself to save my ass, not some device which will immediately deploy my reserve into potential shit. But that's just me. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #9 May 11, 2004 QuoteRSLs are good for students, low timers and people with little confidence. But they are not for everyone. I'd prefer to rely on myself to save my ass, not some device which will immediately deploy my reserve into potential shit That's probably a little dogmatic. I'm not a student, or a low timer, and am quite confident. I also have an RSL. My main is not a pocket rocket, and the likelihood (based on past history, low) of my deciding to cut away low is more dangerous to me than the likelihood of my having a malfunction so awful that the RSL opens the reserve too quickly. I do a lot of RW. I pull below 3000' most of the time. The RSL is far more likely to solve a (probably unsurvivable) problem than to cause (a probably survivable) one. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #10 May 11, 2004 QuoteHow about trying to get stable before deploying one's reserve. Case in point, I have a spinning mal and am violently spinning on my back, I cut away and because of that damn RSL I am not stable and there is the potential for line twists on my reserve (or worse just look at what happens when someone deploys head low or deploys on their back). I sugest watching the 2003 video on my website. There is one just like that on there. Reserve opens perfectly on heading and with no line twists and is RSL deployed. QuoteRSLs are good for students, low timers and people with little confidence. I hope that you don't pass this "knowledge" on to students. Look up BillVon's list of the common RSL myths and you can see each one of your points go down the drain. Only reason mine is not hooked up is since I do CRW on the bottom end every once and a while. If not for that and my camera, I'd jump with mine on any day of the week.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #11 May 11, 2004 QuoteI dropped my rig off to get a repack and the rigger asked me if I still wanted my RSL hooked up. He told me to think about it a few days but honestly, I'm not sure what to do. I'm sure it is all a matter of personal choices but what are your thoughts. I've got over 500 jumps and no cutaways. Keep the RSL or can it? Do you do CRW? Do you jump a high loaded eliptical? Is it a shyhook? Do you jump a camera? Do you have an AAD? A. do search. B. Well, I would say keep it until you have a cutaway and pull both handles."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #12 May 11, 2004 QuoteI hope that you don't pass this "knowledge" on to students. Last time I checked I was not an instructor nor was I a coach. Students should not be asking me questions nor should I be giving them any advise. And before you start spewing crap about me giving advice here on DZ.COM, I am not giving advice. I am only voicing my opinion on my decision to not jump with an RSL. Besides aren't people supposed to listen to their instructors not to people on the net? DON'T LISTEN TO ME STUDENTS, AS I AM NOT YOUR MENTOR!!! As for needing an RSL because someone routinely goes low? Well might I suggest that they pull a little higher and not go through their hard decks with potential crap over their heads? Or would that be too logical as turning extra points below 3k is more important than one's safety? For the record: 1) I do jump with a camera on most jumps. 2) I occasionally will do CReW. 3) I want to be stable before I deploy my reserve. 4) I jump a highly loaded elliptical. 5) I usually pull at or around 3k and usually don't go low. 6) My hard deck is 2k. I have decided not to jump with an RSL. If I die because of this, well then that was the risk I was willing to take. RSLs are not for me. Enough said ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #13 May 11, 2004 what don't you start a thread on cypres too? about helmets? Thats would be a cool one. Anyhow, two sport rigs, one for wingsuit the other for RW and FF and both have it. I even do camera with it. The CRW rig does not have it nor the BASE rig Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #14 May 11, 2004 dunno about anyone else, but I'm keeping mine at least til I have my first chop. I know its my responsibility to pull my handles, but there's nothing wrong with a little back-up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #15 May 11, 2004 QuoteHow about trying to get stable before deploying one's reserve. Case in point, I have a spinning mal and am violently spinning on my back, I cut away and because of that damn RSL I am not stable and there is the potential for line twists on my reserve (or worse just look at what happens when someone deploys head low or deploys on their back). I would much prefer someone pulls unstable than pull low because they thought they needed to wait. If this is really such a concern, get a skyhook. Low pulls are a far greater risk than unstable reserve deployments. Reserves are 1) Designed to deploy while unstable, and 2) designed to fly straight while in line twists. QuoteRSLs are good for students, low timers and people with little confidence. But they are not for everyone. I'd prefer to rely on myself to save my ass, not some device which will immediately deploy my reserve into potential shit. There is little evidence for such a strong derogatory opinion. RSL's should not be depended upon by anyone, but they are appropraite for nearly everyone. This is especially true with the SkyHook. QuoteBut that's just me. That's fine, it's your choice. I won't criticise you for making that choice. I don't think its good advice for others, though. Without a doubt, if I didn't have a camera strapped to my head, I would have a connected RSL. The change in fatality statistics from before the days of RSL's are really very compelling. They show a very simple change where suddenly people aren't dyeing from low pulls. There is not a corresponding increase in fatalities from people pulling while unstable. For the most part, it just hasn't happened. Wander of to www.skydivingfatalities.info and see how many people have gone in under a spinning reserve after an unstable RSL induced deployment. You won't find many. Low pulls and no-pulls are real risks. Pulling while unstable largely isn't. Waiting to "get stable" is a solution to a problem that largely doesn't exist. I don't care if you jump one or not. Please, just don't pass along this misconceptions to others.. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #16 May 11, 2004 "below 3000" is not low for deployment on RW loads. On big-ways, that's high; instructions are often to pull at 2000'. My hard deck is not 2000'. It's not good practice to pull immediately after breaking, so I'm not sure where the comment about turning points below 3000' came from. Canopies used on big-ways are often picked for reliable, reasonably quick, and certainly predictable openings. RSLs are not for you. Fine. No problem. I haven't ever told anyone they were stupid for not using one. But I have mourned people who cut away and didn't deploy a reserve in time. Not all of them were losers. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fundgh 0 #17 May 11, 2004 I don't currently have an RSL because my new rig did not come with it. I have not put one on because it is my feeling that I should not rely on a piece of equipment to replace my emergency procedures. If I cut away, it should be drilled into my head to pull the reserve handle, immediately. If you one is flying a safely sized reserve, should he or she have to worry about line twists?...FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #18 May 11, 2004 i doubt anyone practice pulling just one handle and waiting for the RSL to do the rest. QuoteIf you one is flying a safely sized reserve, should he or she have to worry about line twists? i'm not sure what you're asking, but line twists can happen on any canopy. anyway, i'm less worried about line twists, currently i'm worried about having the main snag on my soon to be installed camera. and you don't want your reserve openning right into a snagged main O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #19 May 11, 2004 THE good thing about MODERN RSL's is that you can DISCONNECT it when you want it inactive. There is no reason not to have your rigger install it. For camera, CRW, or because you want to get stable before pulling the reserve after the cutaway from the 600' canopy collision (Heavy sarcasm on the last point) then disconnect it. We have a debate among riggers at every PIA meeting on whether they will pack a rig without installing the RSL if it has one. Some will do whatever the jumper wants; some won't remove a safety device for anything and if the jumper doesn't want it intalled sends them somewhere else; and some, like me prefer to install it and let the individual disconnect it if they want. I have many customers who disconnect it, but it leaves my shop with it hooked up. The new technical standard that will be referenced by the next version of the TSO will include the RSL as part of the TSO'd components. Then (a couple or more years away) a rigger will have to decide on whether to remove part of the TSO'd assembly; an even harder choice. Have the rigger put it on and disconnect it if you want. You CAN have it both ways. BTW, if you don't have it installed, make sure the hook velcro on the riser is covered with pile velcro tacked in place. The hook will chew up the adjacent reserve riser. BTW I have one on both my rigs, which gets disconnected when doing CRW or camera. The views are mine and not necesarily the official opinion of PIA or the PIA rigging committee PIA Rigging Committee ChairmanI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #20 May 11, 2004 QuoteI would much prefer someone pulls unstable than pull low because they thought they needed to wait. If this is really such a concern, get a skyhook. Skyhooks (what appears to be a great invention) are only available on RWS rigs. This is not an option for people who jump non-RWS gear. QuoteLow pulls are a far greater risk than unstable reserve deployments ... Please, just don't pass along this misconceptions to others. I just love the way people don't read what other people say here on DZ.COM. Did I or did I not mention that my hard deck was pretty high at 2k? So I shouldn't be a high risk person for pulling low, (not to say that going low couldn't happen) and did I or did I not just mention that I was NOT an instructor nor a coach and was NOT looking to give students/newbies advice. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #21 May 11, 2004 Quote Reserves are 1) Designed to deploy while unstable, and 2) designed to fly straight while in line twists. They are? Can you reference this for me please? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiven4fun 0 #22 May 11, 2004 I have had a cutaway from a spinning heavily loaded main, while on my back and did not have an R/S L. but was too low to wait to get stable and ..........I am still here.........Still here after all these years Clayton Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #23 May 11, 2004 damn, people... chill. it's just a question from a kickass flygirl. (need rolly-eyed smiley!!!) dee... personally i'm not into RSLs, but that's because I like to be in full control of my every move. btw... i'm totally stealing your line about peeing in cheerios!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #24 May 11, 2004 QuoteThey are? Can you reference this for me please? Which part? That they're designed to deploy while unstable? I guess you could argue semantics, but some container manufacters recomend being head high, for example. That sounds to me like being unstable. That reserve canopies are designed to fly straight in line twists? That seems obvious by the choice of a lowered aspect ratio. Should I presume you disagree? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #25 May 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteThey are? Can you reference this for me please? Which part? That they're designed to deploy while unstable? I guess you could argue semantics, but some container manufacters recomend being head high, for example. That sounds to me like being unstable. That reserve canopies are designed to fly straight in line twists? That seems obvious by the choice of a lowered aspect ratio. Should I presume you disagree? _Am I am not disagreeing, I just was interested in where you got your information. The only one I know of that they are required to do is open within 4 sec. with 3 line twists. (this can vary for weights above 250) AS8015-B 4.3.5 SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
