AFF student: having huge problem with kicking.

[jjoll 0]

Hello Everyone,
So I am an AFF student. Last night I went to tunnel to practice flying and to brush up my skills. In tunnel, I found out (well I kinda was told before by my AFF instructor) that my biggest problem is my legs. Apparently I keep moving my legs a lot and kicking them like a mad man. My instructor was keep telling me to RELAX and just stop moving my legs but my problem is that I have absolutely zero awareness of my leg movement. When they start kicking I don’t realize it and when I relax, it relaxes my leg muscles and it seems that my relaxed leg move even more. Also I have problem with my leg position as well. When I was checking out my video, my coach and I noticed that when I go to the neutral position, my right leg is bended inward and this makes me spin. Again I have zero awareness of this as well. It seems that I just am not aware of my legs (how they kick or how they are not symmetrically positioned). Anybody knows what is going on? And how can I improve this?
I know I should only listen to my instructors and the biggest advice that I get from my coaches and instructors are: Just relax and calm down your legs but when I do that, my legs seem to move more. Should I just lock my legs and make them stiff?
thanks

[Deimian 43]

jjoll

Should I just lock my legs and make them stiff?
thanks

If you do that you'll be spinning unless you are perfectly symmetrical (not gonna happen). My only advise is to keep at it until you become aware of your legs movements. Visualize it. Close your eyes and visualize yourself in the tunnel or sky nailing it, moving your legs slowly to move at your will.

Welcome to the sport, you are going to have a blast!

[London86 0]

I graduated my AFF recently and had a similar problem towards the latter of my levels.

My instructor taught me to tap my toes together twice, by doing so i was bringing my legs level with each other. it worked a treat for me.

I also spent 30 minutes in the tunnel, and this helped no end - especially getting a video of it to see how my legs look when i'm belly flying.

Obviously I'm still new to the sport and still learning, but just putting out there what worked for me, just run it past your instructor first.

[pchapman 279]

A quick reply:

It is harder to be aware of one's legs in freefall than one's arms. Having students whose legs kick or flop around or who put asymmetrical 'body english' into their position are not uncommon.

Tapping heels against each other -- heel taps -- is one technique to help with leg position issues.
Forces the legs to be more even, and stimulates awareness of where one's legs are.

The mantra of "Relax!" as skydiving instruction is true and useful, but can be overly simplistic and doesn't hold in every circumstance -- such as your legs doing the jellyfish thing. So yeah, then can try to hold your legs rigid in the appropriate position. I wouldn't suggest duct taping your legs together and putting on knee braces and locking the angle, but you get the idea that restraining your legs more would help.
After getting rid of the big problem of kicking and wild differences in each leg's position, then you would be able to work on the smaller problem of too-stiff leg position.

[CourtneyL 0]

When I went through AFF I used to lay on my living room floor on my belly and rest my toes on the edge of the couch. I'd pop into neutral position, hold for five seconds, and relax. That helped I think.

In terms of losing good body position when you relax-- keep in mind that a neutral belly position isn't the same thing as going limp. You have to work a bit to achieve and maintain neutral position. You should feel air on the front of your legs and you'll have to push against it a bit to keep them in the correct position. Same goes for arms.

Honestly though, just keep working at it. Progress might feel slow but remember that you've only been working on this for short minutes at a time. You'll get there if you keep pushing!

[dthames 0]

CourtneyL

When I went through AFF I used to lay on my living room floor on my belly and rest my toes on the edge of the couch. I'd pop into neutral position, hold for five seconds, and relax. That helped I think.

In terms of losing good body position when you relax-- keep in mind that a neutral belly position isn't the same thing as going limp. You have to work a bit to achieve and maintain neutral position. You should feel air on the front of your legs and you'll have to push against it a bit to keep them in the correct position. Same goes for arms.

Honestly though, just keep working at it. Progress might feel slow but remember that you've only been working on this for short minutes at a time. You'll get there if you keep pushing!

In a similar way I was taught with someone holding the tops of my feet/ankles in their hands (while I was on a belly training) and having me push down against their hands with my legs. This force simulates the work to be done against the air in freefall.

I didn't have bad problems but I did have some problems of being aware of what my legs were doing. It is hard on the first few skydives to focus on those smaller details because there are so many other new things going on around you. But with more jumps, you will become more aware of the smaller things and be able to resolve them one by one.

There is a feel to freefall. It takes some people a little longer to get the feel of it. But then it clicks and you seem much better all of the sudden. At least that is the way it was with me.

Keep at it.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[mrubin 0]

Try doing yoga. I first did it as a new skydiver and was amazed at how quickly my awareness of what my body was doing increased. It also helps you learn to breath and stay relaxed when your body is in stressful situations.

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[sammielu 3]

Leg kicking or legs doing things you're not aware of is common when students are starting off.

First: accept that what you think is yout neutral/relaxed position is actually a position where your legs are kicking or you're asymmetrical and turning, not a neutral (still, unmoving) position. You need to learn Neutral, you don't have it yet.

Practice on the ground, a lot. Skydives and tunnel are expensive for even 60 seconds. Practice for 1 minute 10x per day for free on your floor. Instructors can help get you set up for how to practice. Knee taps and heel taps help you think of what your legs are doing.

Also consider footwear. Big shoes catch a lot of air, exaggerating foot/leg motion. A $20 cheap pair of vans or chucks just for jumping might do you a lot of good :)

[wmw999 2,534]

Yet another mental hint is to imagine letting the wind blow your arms and legs back from your body. Then you just have to keep your body belly down (for now). Sometimes it helps to think of what to do, rather than what not to do.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jjoll 0]

A lot of good advice. thanks everyone

[sundevil777 102]

You might try doing some moves that require leg input. Tracking is one, you legs need to be all the way out, then transitioning out of that slowly. You might try intentionally backsliding by putting your feet on your butt for a while. Try extending just one leg at a time to see how that feels and what it does. Also, I suggest trying to use the lower leg (from knee to foot) as a kind of rudder. If you try rotating just your right lower leg inward, that will cause you to turn left. Then doing the same with your left lower leg will make a right turn. It is a powerful way to turn, especially with a jumpsuit that has booties (I understand you don't). Devoting some freefall time to moves that are leg-focused is worth doing.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[gunsmokex 1]

CourtneyL

When I went through AFF I used to lay on my living room floor on my belly and rest my toes on the edge of the couch. I'd pop into neutral position, hold for five seconds, and relax. That helped I think.

In terms of losing good body position when you relax-- keep in mind that a neutral belly position isn't the same thing as going limp. You have to work a bit to achieve and maintain neutral position. You should feel air on the front of your legs and you'll have to push against it a bit to keep them in the correct position. Same goes for arms.

Honestly though, just keep working at it. Progress might feel slow but remember that you've only been working on this for short minutes at a time. You'll get there if you keep pushing!

This is what I did. I always had one leg off. Did the couch thing everyday for a week and the problem was pretty much solved on my next jump.

For kicking your legs this might work. You need to relax and not fight the wind. I know a skydiver that once they get into freefall that literally tell themselves to stop and breathe and this person has 100's of jumps. It works for them you will find what works for you.

Just don't get too discouraged and keep coming back! It will all be worth it :)

[mjosparky 4]

Wiggle your toes and you will know where your feet are. You can do this without being your feet together.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[wan2doit 6]

In the tunnel possibly get to the entry door at about 4 feet up and hold on to the sides and do as others have said by moving legs intentionally while trying to feel them moving.

Wait till u get to leg turns - what a royal pain they were for me but as folks here told me "Keep Practicing and you'll get it" - They were right."

Good Luck

[jackwallace 3]

Take one of your socks off. I can tell you all about it, but you will see.

U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
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[jjoll 0]

jackwallace

Take one of your socks off. I can tell you all about it, but you will see.

why just one?

[jackwallace 3]

jjoll

***Take one of your socks off. I can tell you all about it, but you will see.

why just one?

Which part of "I can tell you all about it, but you will see." don't you understand?

U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
scr 316

[jjoll 0]

jackwallace

******Take one of your socks off. I can tell you all about it, but you will see.

why just one?

Which part of "I can tell you all about it, but you will see." don't you understand?
LOL ok, I will try it tonight.

[mrubin 0]

jjoll

*********Take one of your socks off. I can tell you all about it, but you will see.

why just one?

Which part of "I can tell you all about it, but you will see." don't you understand?
LOL ok, I will try it tonight.

I'm pretty sure that he meant on your next jump or time in the tunnel, although if you want to wear only one sock on a regular basis that is up to you

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[jjoll 0]

mrubin

************Take one of your socks off. I can tell you all about it, but you will see.

why just one?

Which part of "I can tell you all about it, but you will see." don't you understand?
LOL ok, I will try it tonight.

I'm pretty sure that he meant on your next jump or time in the tunnel, although if you want to wear only one sock on a regular basis that is up to you
Yeh I know, I was planning to go to the tunnel that night.

[radical_flyer 0]

Did you go?

[jjoll 0]

radical_flyer

Did you go?

Yes, but I didn't notice much difference with taking one sock off.

[radical_flyer 0]

What about the leg kicking? Got it sorted?

[jjoll 0]

radical_flyer

What about the leg kicking? Got it sorted?

it is much better now. I kinda learned to lock my legs for now which is not ideal but solved the spinning problem.

[jackwallace 3]

You say it didn't make any difference, but you stopped spinning. Why do you THINK that happened?

U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
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